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I would tend to agree but in hindsight it wouldn't have made a difference to the result as HAM would've built up enough of a lead before his pit stop to cancel out the penalty. However I do think if HAM had tried to rejoin the track instead of his massive short cut, then Rosberg and maybe even Verstappen could've gotten race position over him before the safety car so he definitely earned an advantage by going off the race track.

Aww how cute is that? Sorry Sir I apologize for making a negative comment to King Lewis. Now you can move on and enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

You're a good man.

Also WTF @Croft, that's stupid.

Don't forget needlessly insulting anyone with a different opinion than you, a TBK trademark

Are you done being 13 or can we move on with the discussion now?

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

What kind of fucking decision is this regarding Max? We've seen this kind of thing countless times in the past, sometimes in worse positions where the driver behind is almost alongside, but as long as they weren't ahead (front wheel against front wheel), the position wasn't given back.

Here we have the case where the distance gap between Max and Vettel after joining the track, was exactly the same as when he missed his braking, and he had the added loss of having his tyres dirty. I don't see the net gained advantage here, maybe a potential gain for Vettel which didnt happen, but there was no actual gain for Max.

The stewards shouldn't be here repairing fairness, but penalising unfairness. There's a slight difference between the two, a difference that was missed here and they basically handed Vettel a position that wasnt clearly determined on track.

And in all cases, Vettel should learn to shut the fuck up and deal with stuff that happens on the track like the multiple world champion that he is, including dealing with lapped cars.

Crofty thinks Hamilton's shortcut was track-designer's fault, they should have made a comfortable straight for Lewis.



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Fucks sake, as Much as I like Lewis, having Croft on the same side is a fucking embarrassment

You're a commentator you're supposed to be unbiased!!

Lol, I forgot he works for sky, nvm

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

How many time have people on this forum complained that there were no real personalities in F1? and that they are all media robots?

Now that somebody speaks their minds you tell him to "shut the fuck up".

Make up your mind!

delete your account

lol

I made up my mind already. Not all complaining is equal. I love hearing adult outspoken drivers giving smart jabs to each other. Guys like Ricciardo, or Button. Not annoying man-childs annoyingly whining all race long whenevr things donet go their way and the doors arent opened to their majesty..

Yes my friend, when you get into specificities and stop using generalising statements, seeming contradictions tend to disappear. It's like magic!

The penalty is not about gaining an advantage or whatever, it's about blatantly cutting the track when you had the option of not doing it.

Otherwise you can just let half the field cut all the corners, because hey, that dude is in P12 with a 30 second gap to P10 and P13 with 5 laps to go, so let him cut half the track, whatever lol.
It's a ridiculous argument.


Today they should have just handed penalties to everybody. Then you people wouldn't be bitching.

I'm pretty sure the penalty was officially labelled: "cutting the track and gaining an advantage". Do not remove the seocnd part it's important. When someone cuts the track and loses time or don't gain any, they don't bother.

edit: I don't give a shit about Max's position o whatever. I just hate officials meddling in battles, and always voiced my dislike of these penalties. Here it was a first, where track position or gap didnt change at all between turn 1 and turn 3, and the officials still decided that hypothetically, the order should have changed or considered that Vettel's effort was anough to hand him the position. This is a new one, and goes in the direction of more penalties for "offences" that were never considered as such before in recorded F1 history.

What you didn't understand my friend, is that I want nobody to get a penalty, not everybody like you seem to think.

Well in Max's case he did gain an advantage, which only makes the penalty even more deserved.
Doesn't change the fact that giving up on the fair effort to take a corner normally and lifting off to cut the corner should be an instant penalty, time gained or not.

edit: I'm not a fan of penalties either, but considering the circus of stupidity we've seen over the last few races, especially coming from a certain Dutch driver who is a straight safety hazard, at some point you have to hit the drivers where it hurts them most.
And you have to be consistent in doing so, but hey, it's the FIA we are talking about.

What matters is the gap between drivers before turn 1, and after turn 3. It looked the same visually. i don't know, the stewards have access to time gaps and all so they'll see it better, but this has happened several times before and was never penalised. When a driver misses his braking and leaves the track, they just cut and try to rejoin without gaining too much time on their opponent so that they don't get penalised (Lewis didnt even bother rabout that last point in turn 1 really, I really expected him to lift off a bit)

Here, a lot of observers were talking about "giving" the position, even Vettel kept saying that when no position was ever swapped. It's just completely new and weird to me to think like that in a race battle.

EDIT: back in the day, we had:
- Gravel
- No penalties,
Those things used to sort themselves right out. Ah, well...

Gravel traps.

Problem solved.

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

f1 is an embarrassing mess

This whole debacle with penalties starting with the loss of gravel traps, because they did the job straight away. Loss of time and dirty tires. Enough deterrent for drivers and enough penalty when somebody had to evade or cut the track. Now it doesn't matter. A lack of penalty by going off the track is a huge huge advantage now for the driver behind. Especially in the wet. He can simply test the limits without any penalty whatsoever while the guy in front cannot make a mistake otherwise will loose track position. The gaining advantage seems obvious enough, except when it was bloody obvious. Lewis had Rosberg pretty much on his rear tires going into T1, and was 10+ car lengths away exiting T3. Max may be a bit reckless, but looking at this incident alone, I have no clue why there was talk of giving up the position. This only happened at Monza a few years back, but never since. Different races, different rules, different drivers, different rules. Or at the very least, different penalties.

My point is that Max and Lewis (and Nico in a certain way) had the option of braking and turning harder and still making the corner, but they just decided to lift off and go straight through the grass.
Had they made a fair effort to take the corner, then in that case they would have lost more time, and potentially damaged their tyres and lost track positions.
This is where, in my opinion, they gained an advantage by taking the corner.