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Oh boy, this should be interesting...


That are still a great deal slower than F1, and covered in the winglets we all hated in 2008...


On a track that would be completely inappropriate for F1 cars...


...and this is better!?


...which has resulted in 700 cautions already this season because they can't avoid each other. Which artificially closes the pack up.


BETTER THAN F1


The cars that are several seconds a lap off F1 pace.


It doesn't need to be effective, because IndyCar simply told Dallara to build cars that could follow closely. Yes, this is also an artificial thing to spice up the show, if you think about it!


Please point me in the direction of any racing driver who would opt not to use P2P, and I will show you someone who is not a racing driver.


Hold on, I thought you said it was tast because of the cars.


And yet are still faster around a circuit than the DW12


And yet are still slower around a circuit than most of the F1 grid. Probably even McLaren.


Because they use a single chassis which was designed specifically to allow this.


But in the late 80s and early 90s, passing on track was virtually non-existent. This is why driver aids were banned and refuelling was introduced.


What does Charlie Whiting have to do with it? He is the race director and technical delegate. He enforces the rules; he does not write them.



So, in conclusion:

- F1 is shit because the 'racing' is manufactured.
- IndyCar is awesome because, although the racing is manufactured due to the single chassis which was designed for close racing, it's ok because we can conveniently ignore that fact.
- IndyCar is awesome because the cars look faster than F1.
- F1 is shit because the cars are actually faster.
- IndyCar is awesome because the cars look good.
- F1 is shit but some of the cars look good.

I give up. Your argument is too convincing and your logic is bulletproof.

The point about the track is very true. The new F1 circuits and butchering of the old ones is one of the biggest problems I have with F1. I don't see how it can be the pinnacle of racing, yet have the most forgiving least challenging circuits in the world. Yes, getting around the circuit quickly is still a challenge, but mistakes barely even cost you.

Is there any actual proof that a current Indycar really is slower than a F1 car. Lets be honest, between being faster and look faster is a difference. Any racecar will look faster on a small track with little runoff, then a racecar on a bahrain like track surrounded by miles of runoff

I still love F1 but this is the main turn-off for me at the moment. No matter the stakes and how close a battle is going to be, I just cannot get as excited on the less challenging tracks.

It's possible to do a rough comparison, assuming Long Beach has remained the same since 2006:

2006 Champ Car pole: 1:06.886
2015 IndyCar pole: 1:06.7442

So, that gives us a reasonable comparison between those two cars. Why 2006? Because Champ Car raced at Montreal that year, so we can compare to F1, at least from last year:

2006 Champ Car pole: 1:20.005
2014 F1 pole: 1:14.874

It's a bit of a stretch of course, due to the completely different cars, but it does seem reasonable to assume that an IndyCar would still be off by the same margin if they have only just beaten the Long Beach track record.

Also, we mustn't forget the weight difference.

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For reference, the best time at the 2006 Canada GP was a 1:14.726. 1:15.841 in the race.

On a big oval the Dallara would wipe the floor with the F1, but similarly on a road course, the F1 would beat the Indycar hands down, each has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and least we forget an F1 car would likely be picked up in buckets if it hit a concrete wall at 240mph.

Hard to disagree with most of what he says:
http://en.f1i.com/magazine/10320-mark-w ... again.html

IndyCar has more HP and less drag. F1 has more downforce.

Mark Webber: FUCK OFF
Senna used to say if you don't go for a gap you're not a racing driver.
Well, if you don't respect overtaking, you're not much of a racing fan.

He's becoming worse that Villeneuve with his moaning about the current state of F1, mainly because he couldn't adapt to the way it was going to stormed off in a huff.

F1 isn't perfect but how about focusing on the stuff you like about the sport for a change instead of letting the negatives grind you down?

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

Actually...



+1

I prefer tracks that aren't just a challenge, but are also possible to overtake on. Take for example Imola: It was a nice looking track and was decent track to drive but impossible to pass on (especially after 1995), so the racing was always bland.

Bahrain might be unpopular as a venue, but you can at least overtake there, so the racing isn't too bad.

Some of these newer tracks could be made better by planting a few thousand trees around them.

Webber's views are spot on I reckon. Sexy, fast and loud cutting edge cars. You are correct that his tyre management wasn't all that good in the Pirelli era. I feel that tyre management is an important skill set in F1.....to a degree. "I can't get any closer than 2 seconds to the car infront without destroying my tyres" is not tyre management. Its a lottery. I think that Pirelli have done a fantastic job with the parameters they have been made to work with, but it is time reasses those parameters.

And don't take his "less overtaking and more racing" as his lack of being a fan of the sport. In actuality, some of the ALMOST overtakes are more exciting than many actual overtakes. How often have we seen drivers after a race get out beaming from ear to ear after a humdinger of a battle in which there has been side by side racing, almost overtakes, a bit of wheel banging and hard but fair defending. THAT is the across the board quality that he is talking about. And I would take that over overtaking any day of the week. Cause when its pulled off it is awesome and deserved. And I think the modern iteration of DRS is actually getting us close to that.

And saying the sport needs to recapture that essence is not negative at all. People like some on this forum who say they don't watch the sport anymore and that its shit and not what it was like is being negative.

THIS!!! In the past I used to like watching practice sessions. It was exciting to just see the cars on their own racing around the circuit. These days I dont give a shit about practice sessions anymore, it just bores me watching F1 cars driving around circuits such as Shanghai. Only for tracks like Monaco, Monza or Suzuka I m still watching practice sessions.

As always he's spot on.

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agree with Webber.
I remember in 2005 Alonso was barely standing on the podium in Malaysia and today a teenage kid can do the distance without any problem there.
F1 should be harder, faster. not easier slower

why not using token system for aerodynamics and leave engines free for development?

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now

Same for Justin Wilson in his Minardi at Malaysia I recall? Now we got a 16/17 year old driver and he looked very comfortable at Malaysia recently.

If that the case then we should keep Monaco as it is a challenge being a street circuit and it is one of the longest races on the calendar?