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I wonder if the big teams are regretting not allowing customer cars and having budget caps. Probably not.

There are now reports that Bernie has this great new idea of customer cars......

Some might regret it but will never openly admit it. Joe Saward (yes him) had a nice analysis of it if the teams entered 3 cars this season. Ferrari could hope for p10 at best, McLaren p13, Force India 16th and STR 19th. (if no-one crashes or had technical problems that is).

It's just crazy.
Customer cars (for reasonable prices) and less restrictions on paintjobs (generate more income) would help a whole lot already

What do they care? They're now pretty much guaranteed a share out of the prize and TV money that would have gone to Caterham and Marussia for the 2014 and 2015 seasons. The big teams are part of the fucking problem. (Anger is at the situation not in response to your post)

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

They're only in it for themselves, they need a lot less sway in how things are run.

Yes the big teams have a big share in this current problem but also the FIA and Bernie are to blame for letting it come this far. None of the parties cared to look beyond today and what is best for the sport.

The departure of sudden departures of Toyota, Honda and BMW already should have been the trigger to find permanent long term fixes and the demise of HRT should have been a reminder.

How many more have to fall before they take the necessary actions?

Max Mosley did. Tried as well. That's what brought in USF1, Campos, Manor and 1Malaysia in the first place.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

and backed down because some teams didn't want the budgetcap. Same with Prodrive before. Came in thinking they could use customer cars which was also dropped due to a lot of whining.

That's right Micha. But that issue isn't entirely of the FIA's / Max Mosley's creation, that's thanks to the way the Concorde agreement was structured between the teams, FOM and the FIA. Max Mosley had to back down because he was never going to be able to create a budget cap because it contravened the Concorde agreement. But at least he tried to do something, which is more than we can say for the rest of the F1 community.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Max Mosley got his ass whooped, literally and figurative speaking.

for big teams is even better, less backmarkers to overtake and to ruin qualy laps

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now

Who would have thought, ten years ago, that we'd be lamenting the departure of Max Mosley? It does go to show how F1 revolved around both him and Bernie. The difference between Max and JT is that Max had both the brains and the guts to spar with Bernie when it was required. You'd be forgiven for thinking Bernie ran the sport itself nowadays.

I just can't fathom that in this day and age that a major international sport is holding itself at the absolute mercy of the participating teams. Yes, there needs to be some give and take between the two, but the governing body when driven to the absolute crunch, should be like "Well thse are the rules, we tried to give you a say in them, but if you don't like them, then fuck off".

I am not a huge one for conspiracies, but I can't help but feel that there is a master plan being formulated by certain groups behind the scenes, that F1 has been let to get to this point.

you're not alone with that thought buddy.

I think both Bernie & Max did a lot of good for the sport in there early years in there respective roles.

Bernie got the sport organized, He pulled the teams together & ensured they were getting prize money which was the same each weekend. He brought in Sid Watkins & gave him the power to ensure that safety was improved.
Max's safety push may not have always made him popular but I think that the safety stuff he (And Sid Watkins) pushed through are the reason that some drivers are still with us today. I also think that some of the things he pushed though he was doing for the right reasons even if he went about doing them the wrong way.


End of the day I think the problem with both is that they stayed too long & I think for Bernie especially he's gone past the point of doing things for the good of the sport & is now looking at whats best for him, CVC & there finances.

I've got a lot of respect for Bernie, I appreciate the good he's done for the sport I love but right now its time for him to go & its time for someone who understands what the F1 of today requires to take his place.
The prize money needs to be distributed more fairly, F1 needs to have an internet presence, It needs to promote itself better & it needs to start doing whats best for ALL of its competitors & not whats best for the few at the top & for as long as Bernie is there none of this will happen.

What Saward actually said is that no one knows for sure what the third car rule would be but it is thought that the third cars for filling the grid would be randomly allocated for every race - so Ferrari would get one for one race, Mercedes for a different race, Red Bull for another etc. So you wouldn't have certain teams with three cars at every race - every team would get a fair shot. The third cars also wouldn't be able to score constructors points

I'd not have a problem with third cars or customer cars. If budgets are going to remain this high (which seems likely now that they've committed to the current engines and a programme of rule changes for every season), it's pretty clear F1 isn't able to sustain 10 constructors - there's not enough backing to go around. The days of 20 teams, or anywhere near that, are long gone

This is what I've been thinking for years as well.

On a personal side, it literally gives me a physical feeling of disgust just hearing or reading about sport politics. Quick, someone bring up something technical

No problem Saad, here is a good one. Who agrees with this ? "A bigger rear wing means more downforce. More downforce means more grip. More grip means more transmission"

We need a stronger FIA (at least Mosley had leadership), they have to take back control from the self-interested teams, there needs to be a more equal distribution of wealth (but still with more money for the more successful, as it should be), plus more money needs to go back into the sport (and teams), rather than lining the pockets of greedy investors who are effectively raping the sport. FOG (and in turn CVC) get a massively disproportionate share of the income. Joe really does have it spot on:

"If one analyses the sport and asks what’s wrong, the answer is very simple: the sport generates $1.8 billion in revenues and it cannot maintain 11 teams making 20 appearances each year. That is insane."

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

How about we call it what it actually is? A business. A business with investors, customers, employees and a management. Then it is just business as usual what happens.

1.8 billion dollar revenue is great. What are the costs? The profit? How much does actually go to the teams?

Why do the teams don't grow a backbone and do something? Self-interest? How many 'old' teams do we still have that haven't undergone big changes in the last 20 years? Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Sauber. And Sauber might be gone in a few years and was BMW for a few years, so in effect it's only the big 3. It only means the sport is long-term sustainable for the big teams who have won a lot. If that is what they want, that we'll get.

It's the nature of the beast when money becomes bigger then the sport itself. Look in normal businesses. Do you see IKEA going out of business anytime soon? Mcdonalds? Coca Cola? Not to mention companies like proctor&gamble and Nestle. Once big will remain for a very long time big.

Oh, and the rules are so tight (Adrian Newey), a new hot shot designer can never design a wonder car for a small team. So the small teams don't even have a long shot at anything good.

Super Aguri pretty much designed the Brawn BGP001...

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011