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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:26 pm 
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James B wrote:
I'm done with DRS - it might add another 1 to your overtaking figures but it's completely cold and functional and you can see any moves coming a mile off, even if they actually matter. It was never about the overtaking itself - it was about the tension of whether or not the move could be completed. We've gone from one extreme where it was impossible to pass to another where it's too easy, and there's no tension there at all

The other major problem is F1 is obsessed with its past. It has seemingly lost interest in trying to create new history - it just wants to recreate the good times. That's not helping to progress the sport. And it also wants to do this an entirely superficial manner. There's no depth to F1 any more. Once you see beyond the shiny artifice, there's just a cold, dark void. Watching F1 is totally unsatisfying at the moment. And I'm not sure people within F1 understand this, which is why they're messing around with daft proposals which will just leave people feel even more disconnected

Criticise Hindhaugh all you want but he's on the right track - I can imagine endurance racing feeling a lot more satisfying and authentic than F1, because the number of Things Happening doesn't determine how good a race is. If that's the basis people in F1 are working on, trying to cram as much shit onto the screen in one go like Michael Bay or George Lucas, they'll end up creating something that only 8-year-olds with ADHD will enjoy watching. The more F1 pisses about with megaphones for engines and active suspension to create sparks, the less authentic it becomes



Man, I don't know if you are a journalist or not, but damn(forgive the expression), you write and argue very well !

About the MercedesxMclaren thing, I fear the domination of Mercedes. Engines are now homologated and I wonder if that will mean Ferrari and Renault not being able to catch up with Mercedes. If that's the case, I can't see other Mercedes powered cars being able to challenged the works team.

It seems from onboards that Red Bull and Lotus have great cornering speeds but their PU likely have a mega deficit. Ferrari car is, perhaps, not that bad, after all, they were never this much better than Sauber before(since the return of them, not in 2000s era).

There is a very clear difference even in the sound of the PUs. Scotty said that, live at the track, the turbos are even louder than the engines itself. If you watch Mercedes powered cars' onboards, you can hear the turbo whistle everywhere, even on the 100% throttle zones. The Ferrari's and Renault's PU turbos are not audible like that.

I don't like this homologation thing. That will lead to no catch up and the Silver Arrows may, unprecedentedly, dominate the sport for years(by this I mean pretty much all poles and wins)

Ferrari 2004 was nowhere near this far ahead. On pure mechanical grip tracks like Monaco, Michelin runners beaten Ferrari and even on tracks where Ferrari's superior car prevailed(most of them), it was never by 1 to 1,5s gap. Red Bull's 2010 car was 1s faster on qualifyings, at some tracks. Still, the race pace and reliability was a different story(Barcelona, for instance)

I hope Honda's PU, which I guess might be massively worked on now, matches or surpasses Mercedes and that RB switches to them because otherwise...


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:04 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Ha, yeah, I was in Spain, so a little busy.

A few Italian sources say that the gravel at Parabolica is being replaced by tarmac run-off :(


Because of all those terrible series of sidewinding snap rolls that happen every time anyone races there. :roll:


To be fair, there have been a few big accidents there and at least one was a flip caused by the gravel - Ralf's in 2003. Button also had a big one in 2006, though I don't think it was a flip


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:24 pm 
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I always thought Ralf's crash was at one of the Lesmos, but it's a long time since I read about it. I can only think of Badoer and Clos rolling in the gravel. Neither were at Parabolica and neither were particularly dangerous.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:26 pm 
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It was at one of the Lesmos.

Did Ralf have another big crash at Parabolica too?


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:33 pm 
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Apologies, it was at the Lesmos, yes. Button's was definitely there, though: http://www.tsn.ca/story/print/?id=175922

Point is there is/was definitely potential for a big accident there due to the gravel. I don't particularly want to see it removed but I can understand why they're doing it


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Probably more of a fact of people running wide there rather then the potential hazard of spinning off into the gravel.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:58 pm 
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James B wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Ha, yeah, I was in Spain, so a little busy.

A few Italian sources say that the gravel at Parabolica is being replaced by tarmac run-off :(


Because of all those terrible series of sidewinding snap rolls that happen every time anyone races there. :roll:


To be fair, there have been a few big accidents there and at least one was a flip caused by the gravel - Ralf's in 2003. Button also had a big one in 2006, though I don't think it was a flip


I don't fear flips, not at all these days. Rules strengthening rollbars/cages and the size of gravel traps mean that it's a great way to dissipate energy over a longer time and distance rather than a relative high speed (sideways) thwack into a barrier.

I do fear a car losing its brakes/tyre/wheel/sudden downpour and hitting the barrier sideways on or at an awkward angle.

When you think about somewhere like Silverstone, it being covered in tarmac is just a safety feature for the f1 weekend, which usually takes place in sunny skies in July and everything trots along merrily.
However the rest of the national and european championships probably have a higher chance of finding their races there taking place under wet conditions due to the wonders of the British weather system and then finding the run off is suddenly doing next to fuck all.

Look at Massa's accident. OK the wall impact didn't cause him the injuries but a gravel trap would probably have stopped him or at least arrested his forward momentum quite a lot before he was buried into the tyres.

Not to seem like an old stick in the mud or a OMG FLIPPERZ fan, but my main problem with tarmac over gravel is the narrow operating window for it to be effective.
I'm sure the data proves that in that limited set of conditions tarmac works better at slowing down the cars but there's such a wider set of circumstances the FIA either doesn't care because it doesn't involve F1 or just dismisses for whatever reason where it is actually worse than leaving the gravel traps there.

This is before you bring in less important but still annoying side effects like the drivers using it as a track extension or FOM using it for even more fucking advertising room....my cynical brain says that has a bit to do with it to, F1 having more opportunity to bring us adverts plastered all over the track.

There we go, that's my annual rant on Tarmac runoffs,
I'll return again when the next famous corner succumbs.
My vote is Palmer having ideas to pave Paddock Hill bend. (well, again ;) )

P.S. I think Catch Fences were a load of shit so I don't want to turn back the clock toooo far. K tnx :p

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:44 am 
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Don't let Scotty see that post :lol:

Catch fencing worked really well, but it had the unfortunate side effect of taking a long time to replace, and on the odd occasion felt it necessary to decapitate a patron while doing it's job.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:57 am 
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I'm glad they are finally taking an act on Parabolica, it was long overdue, actually.

I can't believe how incredibly dangerous Barcelona was a decade ago


This is the right path for Monza, or even better, they should turn it into a very tight hairpin to improve safety and overtaking there :whistling:


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:16 am 
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Not sure if serious....


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:38 am 
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Only serious accident at Parabolica that I know of is Derek Warwick. And he jumped out of his car and ran up the pit lane to get in a car 24 years more dangerous than what we have now. Literally no reason why the gravel should be removed.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:39 am 
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Ian-S wrote:
Not sure if serious....


About which or how many of Artur's posts?

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:43 am 
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James B wrote:
JJ wrote:
I ask FIA: about which things in F1 I should feel excited? Answer: Nothing, but please buy our live timing app.
[/grumpyoldman]


I think this is kind of the point here

I was reluctant to get involved in this because I switched the last race off after a few laps, and only switched it back on with a few to go. I just didn't feel like there was any need. But that's still more than I saw of China - I just didn't bother at all, and haven't even watched the highlights. And yet this comes after Bahrain, theoretically one of the most exciting races I can remember. I was excited at the start of the season too. But I'm already back to feeling the same way I have for the last couple of years

I've been left wondering "why should I bother watching?" There's nothing. I'm not going to blame Mercedes here, and the lack of diversity of winners - the problem runs deeper than that. There's nothing captivating about F1 any more. Where's the drama? I'm done with DRS - it might add another 1 to your overtaking figures but it's completely cold and functional and you can see any moves coming a mile off, even if they actually matter. It was never about the overtaking itself - it was about the tension of whether or not the move could be completed. We've gone from one extreme where it was impossible to pass to another where it's too easy, and there's no tension there at all

What else? Strategy is pretty much dead, and even in the vaguely interesting strategic races, it's all down to tyres that have been made deliberately mediocre. The return of unreliability never appeared - the cars are just as reliable as they were last year - and there's no way anyone's going to crash any more in the vast majority of circuits. We're left with occasional pit stop cock-ups as our only legitimate excitement

The other major problem is F1 is obsessed with its past. It has seemingly lost interest in trying to create new history - it just wants to recreate the good times. That's not helping to progress the sport. And it also wants to do this an entirely superficial manner. There's no depth to F1 any more. Once you see beyond the shiny artifice, there's just a cold, dark void. Watching F1 is totally unsatisfying at the moment. And I'm not sure people within F1 understand this, which is why they're messing around with daft proposals which will just leave people feel even more disconnected

Criticise Hindhaugh all you want but he's on the right track - I can imagine endurance racing feeling a lot more satisfying and authentic than F1, because the number of Things Happening doesn't determine how good a race is. If that's the basis people in F1 are working on, trying to cram as much shit onto the screen in one go like Michael Bay or George Lucas, they'll end up creating something that only 8-year-olds with ADHD will enjoy watching. The more F1 pisses about with megaphones for engines and active suspension to create sparks, the less authentic it becomes

It's the equivalent of asking yourself "why do I watch F1?" A while back I realised that the only reason I was watching was because I always do. Not watching made me realise that I wasn't missing out


If only I could show this post to 2009-era James Bennett.

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So I guess you guys are pretty stoked about the tumors, then


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:47 am 
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James B wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Ha, yeah, I was in Spain, so a little busy.

A few Italian sources say that the gravel at Parabolica is being replaced by tarmac run-off :(


Because of all those terrible series of sidewinding snap rolls that happen every time anyone races there. :roll:


To be fair, there have been a few big accidents there and at least one was a flip caused by the gravel - Ralf's in 2003. Button also had a big one in 2006, though I don't think it was a flip


Next up...
Suzuka... Degner... :(


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:24 am 
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Ian-S wrote:
Don't let Scotty see that post :lol:

Catch fencing worked really well, but it had the unfortunate side effect of taking a long time to replace, and on the odd occasion felt it necessary to decapitate a patron while doing it's job.

I would have thought it's massive con would have been a few times the catch fencing would get stuck over a driver making hit hard for him to get out of a car quickly if it burst into flames.

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:28 am 
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Actually I think FIA doesn't want to see this happen again.


But I don't see tarmac totally preventing that, especially if it's wet (=more reasons to ban wet racing). Moreover if there are a bunch of drivers going wide there in the first lap, they may cause an accident by abruptly returning to the track.

I'm surprised that turn 3,4 & 5 are still gravel at Red Bull Ring. But guess it needs just one crash or maybe mere spin so that by 2015 they will be tarmac.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:31 am 
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James B wrote:
Criticise Hindhaugh all you want


I love Hindhaugh. He's *fantastic*. However his opinion on anything but endurance racing is completely worthless as he'll criticise F1 for anything. If we have a phenomenal GP he'll find the negative points and talk about how much of a farce it was etc. He'll talk about how corrupt F1 is, but gloss over that in sportscars.

I fucking love endurance racing, and Le Mans without John wouldn't be the same. But let's not use him as a way to judge series against each other.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:11 am 
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Spinny35 wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
Don't let Scotty see that post :lol:

Catch fencing worked really well, but it had the unfortunate side effect of taking a long time to replace, and on the odd occasion felt it necessary to decapitate a patron while doing it's job.

I would have thought it's massive con would have been a few times the catch fencing would get stuck over a driver making hit hard for him to get out of a car quickly if it burst into flames.


I don't ever remember seeing a car catch fire in the catch fencing in all the years I spent spectating in the catch fencing era.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:22 am 
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You don't modify tracks only because some dipshit might not properly bring his car back on track, despite having already slowed down from his off.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:07 pm 
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Schumifan wrote:
Only serious accident at Parabolica that I know of is Derek Warwick. And he jumped out of his car and ran up the pit lane to get in a car 24 years more dangerous than what we have now. Literally no reason why the gravel should be removed.


Well, Jochen Rindt died in the Parabolica, but only because he was driving a Lotus.

I just flew over the circuit about two hours ago and I didn't notice any changes to it from about 10.000 m up in the air, but I really hope these are just false rumors. They already took away a lot of flair when they changed the kerns in the chicanes, wo we don't have any more jumping cars...


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