2014 Random F1 Discussion

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:23 pm

gkmotorsport wrote:

Because the scale is logarithmic, a gap of 10dB is *very roughly* a doubling of apparent loudness.

The intensity doubles every 3db actually

(I mean mathematically. The actual sound perception is another debate and has been covered enough here).

I think it's a good thing sounds are getting quieter. Some day, not so far from now, explosion engines will be history. Better get used to it early on.

James B · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:26 pm

I'm hoping all of this politicking is just brinkmanship as usual. As corrupt as the FIA is, we don't really need the lunatics taking over the asylum

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:18 pm

gkmotorsport wrote:

Also, as has already been pointed out, the Decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. There are plenty of comparative examples that anyone can Google, but here's a few approximate values:

60dB: Spoken conversation
70dB: Busy street traffic
75dB: ORF1's apparent measure of a 2014 F1 car
80dB: Vacuum cleaner
100dB: Petrol lawnmower
120dB: Thunderclap
120dB: Rock concert
130dB: Pain threshold for most people
134dB: FIA's measure of a 2014 F1 car
135dB: Fighter jet at takeoff
140dB: Threshold for possible ear damage; ear protection recommended
140dB: Jet engine at take off from 100'
143dB: FIA's measure of a 2013 F1 car

Because the scale is logarithmic, a gap of 10dB is *very roughly* a doubling of apparent loudness. So, these cars almost certainly are a lot quieter, but still louder than a lot of very loud things. I'm not sure I can accept them as quieter than a vacuum cleaner, even given the sound comparisons :P

160dB: Space shuttle takeoff
180dB: Motörhead concert

James B · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:24 pm

A good day to bury bad news - looks like the FIA have been pressured into ditching the cost cap: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113319

Fish88 · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:47 pm

Good with 2 new teams coming and the other new teams having sufficiënt funding it wasn't needed IMO.

OS · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:31 pm

NVirkkula wrote:

gkmotorsport wrote:

Also, as has already been pointed out, the Decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. There are plenty of comparative examples that anyone can Google, but here's a few approximate values:

60dB: Spoken conversation
70dB: Busy street traffic
75dB: ORF1's apparent measure of a 2014 F1 car
80dB: Vacuum cleaner
100dB: Petrol lawnmower
120dB: Thunderclap
120dB: Rock concert
130dB: Pain threshold for most people
134dB: FIA's measure of a 2014 F1 car
135dB: Fighter jet at takeoff
140dB: Threshold for possible ear damage; ear protection recommended
140dB: Jet engine at take off from 100'
143dB: FIA's measure of a 2013 F1 car

Because the scale is logarithmic, a gap of 10dB is *very roughly* a doubling of apparent loudness. So, these cars almost certainly are a lot quieter, but still louder than a lot of very loud things. I'm not sure I can accept them as quieter than a vacuum cleaner, even given the sound comparisons :P

160dB: Space shuttle takeoff
180dB: Motörhead concert

190dB: Big Bang
200dB: Chuck Norris whispering.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:49 am

Mäth wrote:

alex1369 wrote:

Yeh, find somewhere the pre race stuff of Malaysian GP on ORF1 and you will see.
If its 134db why dont pepole wear earlugs when you watch the amateur videos? Would 10db make such a big difference that they dont need them?
So it has to be 75db then... but that was on ORF1

Roughly, decibels are a measure of air pressure. You can have a very low tone sound with a high intensity value (long wave-lenght with high pressure) which may not be as easy to hear as a high pitch sound with a low intensity value (short wave lenght with low pressure). I remember watching an episode of Mythbusters where they were testing the myth that being exposed to infrasound (very long wave-lenght, low pitch) for a certain amount of time will make you pee. They used 4 (not sure though) huge speakers and they measured, with a decibelmeter, 140 decibels but the sound was barely noticeable, but the vibration was so hard that some could barely stand on their feet. So decibels and pitch are two very different things that are somehow linked, but you cannot judge a sound on one of these figures alone, you have to make things out of both. And a 1 decibel gap means that sound is 10 times "quiter" or "louder" depending on what the comparison point is.

:Edit// I missed a few posts, so I think we all reached the same point lol

Not that I'm making any point with this, but the human ear can hear sound from this frequency range: 20 Hz to 20 000 Hz. Below, it's infrasound, as you said, and above it's ultrasound.

Dogs and other pets can hear ultrasound frequencies and it's sometimes funny when they start reacting to sounds they are hearing and we aren't.

But I don't think the F1 PU produces sounds in the infrasound region. I guess ee're able to hear their full sound intensity and it should be muffling the tyre squealing and wind in order for it to be louder than Indy's V6

A lower tone sound will need higher particle displacement to match the intensity of a higher tone sound which has bigger frequency, but if F1 engines had more intensity than Indy's, it should muffle the sounds Indy's engines do and more, given it's on our ear perception range.

Woodski · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:23 am

Possible stupid question.

When the drivers hit the ERS button on the wheel, does it make the rear light flash? Saw a few instances over the past races where a car would be going down the straight and the rear light would start flashing.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:04 am

Scotty wrote:

Woodski wrote:

Possible stupid question.

When the drivers hit the ERS button on the wheel, does it make the rear light flash? Saw a few instances over the past races where a car would be going down the straight and the rear light would start flashing.

I believe that flash indicates the car is coasting or harvesting energy. Happens when they hit the brakes normally or lift off.

Ossi Oikarinen said in MTV coverage that the flashing rear light signals other drivers that the car in front is on fuel saving mode, so the car might decelerate earlier than expected.

Ian-S · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:15 am

Scotty wrote:

Woodski wrote:

Possible stupid question.

When the drivers hit the ERS button on the wheel, does it make the rear light flash? Saw a few instances over the past races where a car would be going down the straight and the rear light would start flashing.

I believe that flash indicates the car is coasting or harvesting energy. Happens when they hit the brakes normally or lift off.

They mentioned it on Sky, it's a warning to tell the driver behind that the car is about to slow because the KERS is going to stop providing extra energy, so the car will suddenly slow back to regular speed, it's to avoid the car behind doing a Webber if they happen to still be on full boost.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:16 am

OS wrote:

NVirkkula wrote:

gkmotorsport wrote:

Also, as has already been pointed out, the Decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. There are plenty of comparative examples that anyone can Google, but here's a few approximate values:

60dB: Spoken conversation
70dB: Busy street traffic
75dB: ORF1's apparent measure of a 2014 F1 car
80dB: Vacuum cleaner
100dB: Petrol lawnmower
120dB: Thunderclap
120dB: Rock concert
130dB: Pain threshold for most people
134dB: FIA's measure of a 2014 F1 car
135dB: Fighter jet at takeoff
140dB: Threshold for possible ear damage; ear protection recommended
140dB: Jet engine at take off from 100'
143dB: FIA's measure of a 2013 F1 car

Because the scale is logarithmic, a gap of 10dB is *very roughly* a doubling of apparent loudness. So, these cars almost certainly are a lot quieter, but still louder than a lot of very loud things. I'm not sure I can accept them as quieter than a vacuum cleaner, even given the sound comparisons :P

160dB: Space shuttle takeoff
180dB: Motörhead concert

190dB: Big Bang
200dB: Chuck Norris whispering.

225dB: Brian Blessed thinking

aerogi · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:17 pm

So how come we had such a great race, with so many good overtakings in comparison to the first two races? Even without the SC it would have been a fantastic race. It's not that on Sepang and Melbourne you can't have good races, because in the past we have seen some real good ones as well.

Was it the circuit itself? Did the teams tell their drivers to go out and have som fun instead of saving on tyres, engines or fuel? Because it was dark?

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:18 pm

The GP2 races in Bahrain were great as well. I think its the layout that just allows for 2 wide racing and good slipstreams.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:24 pm

Conditions and the teams and drivers know the car better?

aerogi · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:28 pm

mclaren2008 wrote:

The GP2 races in Bahrain were great as well. I think its the layout that just allows for 2 wide racing and good slipstreams.

yep that could be a good reason.

So perhaps in investig lots of money to increase action on track, perhaps they should investigate why there is lots of action on certain tracks, and try to adjust other tracks in such a way we see lots of overtakings.

I am sure that Barcelona could be altered in such a way it would be a very good track too for example.

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:54 pm

Turkey was a great track for racing on, those last 3 corners were laid out very well. It often took half a lap to complete a pass.

COTA also produces good racing, those wide corner entries really entice dives.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:58 pm

I think these three tracks could be called examples of Tilke getting it right.

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:38 pm

Pity that Turkey was built where it was.

Shaddix · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:49 pm

At least they have kebab.

iks · PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:50 pm

TBK-Light.com

2014 Random F1 Discussion

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