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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:15 am 
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alex, read this to please you:
http://forums.autosport.com/topic/19247 ... -f1-split/
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 23#p497323

PS: I'm not trying to make any point with this, just pointing out places where he can find people who shares same views


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:37 am 
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Thank you for reminding me why I steer clear of the autosport forum.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Brought to you in partnership with YouTube and Daily Mail comments sections...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:25 pm 
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Haha, a thousand internet points for whoever set up the text string replacement :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:34 am 
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BTW, has it been posted already that Sebastian Vettel won the Laureus Sportsman Of The Year, which is like the Oscar for Best Actor?

He beat Cristiano Ronaldo, Rafael Nadal, LeBron James, Mo Farah and Usain Bolt.

Last F1 driver to win was Schumi back in 2004

Good tast



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:31 am 
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I have a question about the Interlagos track. There will be changes made to the track.
Track will be longer and pits will be moved after turn 3 i think. But i want to know when? This year or 2015?
So any pic of how should it look like?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:38 am 
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This is pretty much all I could find about it - they planned to move the pits to the back straight, and extend the run into turn 4, thus making it a tighter corner.

All of the news seems to be that it was 'planned' back in the middle of last year, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if the plans have joined Donington...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Good article from Jonathan Noble on the complaints, which some would do well to read :P

Quote:
The sale of rose-tinted spectacles must have gone through the roof in Formula 1 circles in recent days. Such has been the outpouring of derision from fans, the sport's promoters and some circuit owners about the current cars' lack of sound, you'd have been forgiven for thinking the sport had left an era of brilliance to return to the dark ages.

It's clear some think that having a new competitive order in F1, cars that are faster in a straight line and more sideways in the corners, machinery that allows rookies to match their more experienced rivals, and technology that's got car makers and sponsors excited again, are unimportant.

Instead, those shouting the loudest think F1 is ruined solely because we no longer need to wear earplugs to drown out the noise of the engines. It seems they would have much preferred to stick with the V8s.

But if we pause for a moment and consider what would have happened to F1 if the new regulations had been ditched, the answer is simple: we would be in a whole heap of trouble right now.

For a start, carrying on with the V8s would have prompted an engine crisis. As car makers push on with selling products that are more environmentally friendly, the ever-increasing expenditure on an F1 using frozen-spec V8 engines with no relevance to road cars was becoming ever harder to justify.

It's no secret that Renault would have pulled out of the sport if the new rules had not come in to play, which would have meant a scramble for Red Bull, Lotus, Toro Rosso and Caterham to find replacement engines.

Mercedes and Ferrari may have been able to expand their supply deals a little, but they would certainly have been under no obligation to do so. And it would not have been so easy to persuade Cosworth to bring its F1 engine operation back into life.

Even if F1 had been able to muddle through, alarm bells would have been ringing about its longer term sustainability, for the levels of interest from other manufacturers to step in were pretty much zero since the last car-maker exodus.

So we can rest assured that the future McLaren-Honda partnership would definitely not be happening if we had V8s rather than the new hybrid turbos.

Beyond the shaky engine situation, there's little reason to think that carrying on with the old generation of rules would have changed anything in competitive terms from last year either. Judging by the aerodynamic brilliance of the current RB10, whichever of the V8s Red Bull had got hold of would have been enough to keep the Sebastian Vettel steamroller going.

So Melbourne may well have delivered the German's 10th consecutive victory. Worse than that, it would probably have been a boring procession too, because let's not forget that Pirelli is being ultra-conservative this year to ensure that its tyres are no longer a talking point.

A boring race and another Vettel win would have given many followers of the sport reason enough to switch off, irrespective of the noise and certainly not withstanding desperate measures like double points.

No one is pretending that some F1 fans don't need winning over about the pleasures that the new engine sounds bring trackside, but the sport's boss has a duty to help the situation and not join in the criticism.

How about moving the trackside microphones closer to the action, and making any necessary tweaks, so the fans at home get a real audible treat?

I will miss the sound of the V8s, just as I miss the V10s and the V12s, but that's no reason to moan about what we have now.

F1 has to move with the times, and I would much rather be looking through sunglasses to a brighter future than peering through rose-tinted spectacles at a skewed perspective of the past.


From the press conferences, Vettel has said the new cars sound "shit", while Jenson has suggested that anyone who is unhappy with them should "go and race something else". Supreme snarkiness, assuming it was in the same press conference.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
the ever-increasing expenditure on an F1 using frozen-spec V8 engines with no relevance to road cars was becoming ever harder to justify.


And there in lies the problem. An engine freeze that took away the impetus of the car manufacturers to actually improve on their engines. Rather than have a strict engine restriction or ridged set of rules, they should have set guidelines (say fuel flow limits or RPM limits) and let the manafacturers design what ever the hell they wanted. Now THAT would have made F1 road relevant as they wouldn't have been pigeon holed into designing a highly specific type of engine that the car manufacturers may necessarily not even make for their road cars.

As I said in a previous post, if Ferarri thought the best way was to make a revolutionary V12 and Renault the current V6 then so be it, as they would have been promoting their own product/design philosophies.

And before anyone talks about the costs, just look at what has happened now with this enforced engine, costs have sky rocketed, they have become hideously complex, and I would hazzad a guess that the knock on costs associated with wasted work hours and replacement of other parts has been through the roof as well.

I would not be such a vocal voice about the current V6 engines if the manufacturers came up with this on their own steam (and for that matter the dick noses), but seeing as this was forced upon them, I find the FIA solely to blame for trying to be "seen" as being more important than they really are to the automotive world.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Cancel F1 tbh:
- Fans are bitching
- Bernie is bitching
- It sucks


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:54 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
Quote:
the ever-increasing expenditure on an F1 using frozen-spec V8 engines with no relevance to road cars was becoming ever harder to justify.


And there in lies the problem. An engine freeze that took away the impetus of the car manufacturers to actually improve on their engines. Rather than have a strict engine restriction or ridged set of rules, they should have set guidelines (say fuel flow limits or RPM limits) and let the manafacturers design what ever the hell they wanted. Now THAT would have made F1 road relevant as they wouldn't have been pigeon holed into designing a highly specific type of engine that the car manufacturers may necessarily not even make for their road cars.

As I said in a previous post, if Ferarri thought the best way was to make a revolutionary V12 and Renault the current V6 then so be it, as they would have been promoting their own product/design philosophies.

And before anyone talks about the costs, just look at what has happened now with this enforced engine, costs have sky rocketed, they have become hideously complex, and I would hazzad a guess that the knock on costs associated with wasted work hours and replacement of other parts has been through the roof as well.

I would not be such a vocal voice about the current V6 engines if the manufacturers came up with this on their own steam (and for that matter the dick noses), but seeing as this was forced upon them, I find the FIA solely to blame for trying to be "seen" as being more important than they really are to the automotive world.


The trouble is, a formula this open would end up reverting to type, as it did in the past, the moment one manufacturer stole a march on the others. Think about it:

- Ford ended up supplying most of the grid with DFVs in the 70s, with only the Italian marques steering away for their own reasons
- Everyone who could started building turbo engines when it became clear that Renault had an advantage
- Everyone, including Ferrari, moved to V10s when it became clear that they offered the best balance between power and economy

Each time, engines ended up more or less the same, with little relevance to the manufacturer's business. Ferrari never (AFAIK) have sold a V10-engined car. Renault fitted a turbo engine to the 5, but that's about it. And, more importantly, costs would be driven through the roof. This was probably ok in the 80s and 90s, but it would spark a mass exodus of manufacturers now. What we have now is a compromise of a compromise - it was originally going to be an I4, not a V6, until Ferrari dug their heels in. But still, it's better to start with an agreed format than let the teams and manufacturers go through another boom and bust. Toyota, anyone?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Zoran Stefanovic has withdrawn his bid to join the grid in 2015. Problem was finding a engine manufacturer that wanted to back/supply him.

He now looks into buying a or buying into a existing team.

Only left are Gene Haas' bid with Ferrari Engines and Dallara chassis and Kollin Kolles Romanian backed bid. Of the latter there aren't any details available yet.

source = http://www.formule1.nl/nieuws/detail/st ... rlopig-op/
(source is in Dutch)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:17 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
Quote:
the ever-increasing expenditure on an F1 using frozen-spec V8 engines with no relevance to road cars was becoming ever harder to justify.


And there in lies the problem. An engine freeze that took away the impetus of the car manufacturers to actually improve on their engines. Rather than have a strict engine restriction or ridged set of rules, they should have set guidelines (say fuel flow limits or RPM limits) and let the manafacturers design what ever the hell they wanted. Now THAT would have made F1 road relevant as they wouldn't have been pigeon holed into designing a highly specific type of engine that the car manufacturers may necessarily not even make for their road cars.


more dynos, less windtunnels

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:19 pm 
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I would like to invite Mr. Noble, Mr. Rencken and every other 'expert' who thinks that V6 turbos have to sound like shite to watch a small race around an airport in Florida this Sunday.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:52 pm 
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I've seen a current Indycar race in person, they're not that loud either. Don't see the need for a comparison.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Can't say I've heard the tyres squeal on an IndyCar onboard, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:00 pm 
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So? That's just more noises to create atmosphere.

Seriously though. I've been going to motorsport events since the mid-80's. My first GP was 85 or 86 and I've witnessed all the various different types of engine noises in person and on TV. The current engines are fine. Maybe they could be a little louder but quite frankly the noisy complaints people are making are getting pretty tiresome. The current specs are about the same, if not quieter, than those of the mid-80's. No-one complained then. So why now?

This is a RACING series for crying out loud, not a NOISE series.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:11 pm 
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kals wrote:
This is a RACING series for crying out loud, not a NOISE series.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Tyre squeal is awesome, I wish I could hear it in all series.

(Since this 'discussion' seems to be dragging on and on and on and on and on and on, better make the most of it)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:20 pm 
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That's your opinion, and that's fair enough. But there's a growing list of quite influential people who don't agree. Race promoters are worried that the lack of noise will tip people away from attending the races. Whether that comes to pass remains to be seen.

The only thing I was pointing out was that cutting the number of cylinders does not automatically lead to drastically reduced sound quality.

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