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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:54 am 
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Scotty wrote:
His theory is right, in terms of the air density/temperature correlation.

However, he is also wrong, as testing means three fifths of fuck all. How many tests in the last, however many years, have we seen the team who would go on to be champions dominate testing? Zero.


I wasn't wrong. At least not regarding the fact that I never claimed the tests to really mean much. I even said to take the times with a pinch of salt and that the 4.7s are not a perfect reflection of how things will be. You were wrong reading things I didn't write. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:52 am 
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Bernie is a free man. His court trial has been dismissed.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:02 pm 
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[Removed snarky statement that is actually not relevant here ;)]


Last edited by gkmotorsport on Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Wait, this is a different case entirely. He has won a (UK) high court damages case brought against him by a German media company. The (DE) *criminal* case is still set to go ahead in April.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Ah, okay. Free for now then.

In other "news":

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How do LMP1 sportscars stack up against new-look F1 on pace so far? Toyota factory driver and ex-F1 racer Alex Wurz reckons he has the answer.

@
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_wurz: "Watching Bahrain F1 test times. Currently I would be 7th with my time I set in the @Toyota_Hybrid...(With a good looking nose as well - LOL)."


Hrrbl slow cars :(


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:42 pm 
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These are the qual times for the 2 Super Aguri's at the 2006 race:

Takuma Sato 1:37.411
Yuji Ide 1:40.270


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:38 pm 
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The comparisons are still pretty meaningless, though. Was there this much gnashing of teeth when Group C cars were practically as fast as F1? Or when Japanese F3000 runners could have easily qualified for the Japanese GP?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:13 pm 
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mclaren2008 wrote:
These are the qual times for the 2 Super Aguri's at the 2006 race:

Takuma Sato 1:37.411
Yuji Ide 1:40.270

So? what are you implying with it?

Is it to say: "oh, the cars are not that slow"?

If so, why cherry pick the bottom times? Pick the pole time which was 1:31.431

Ok, let's get this a bit more detailed:

_The 2014 cars will be 50kg heavier than the 2013 ones, that alone will account for 1,5 to 2 s (depends on track layout)
_2014 cars loss in downforce will probably range between 1,2 to 2 s compared to 2013 (depends on each car. Red Bull will be hurt the most and is my guess of the 2s while teams like Williams I guess to only have lost about 1,2s due to their lack of downforce, anyway, compared to the others.) My guess is based on what is believed to be the gain of coanda exhaust(0,8 to 1,2s) plus the loss area in front and rear wings and beam wing.
_Pirelli have said their tyres will be harder but not much harder because cars would slide with the additional torque of the PUs and therefore would wear more. So, they will be slower but not that much slower. A good guess would be that 2013 medium or hard compounds will be more or less the compounds of the 2014 supersofts. So let's range the increase in laptime, due to tyres, from 1 to 2s

Now, the defining issue is the actual power of the PUs. It was initially expected that the combustion engine would generate around 600HP which, with the ERS additional power, would lead to a total outcome of around 760HP(about the same as the 2013 engines). However, recently, it was said that Mercedes could be approaching 700HP, without ERS, which, if confirmed, will account for 3s, on average(depends on track), of advantage of the 2014 power units versus 2013 engines

In summary, my guess is that if the power is to be around the same as before, 2014 cars will be 3,7 to 6 seconds slower going from the lowest to the highest guesses on each item.

If the PUs really achieve the speculated 860HP, I think they will be from 0,7 to 3s slower


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:25 pm 
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1:34.910 min by Kevin Magnussen... they're getting faster and faster!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:39 pm 
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dicksplaash wrote:
Bernie is a free man. His court trial has been dismissed.


This is incorrect.

The media company that raised the complaint have been adjudged not to have suffered any losses from the sales of F1 so were not awarded any damages. That is all. The judge in this case made it clear that Bernie made a corrupt payment to the banker to drive down the value of F1 so that Bernie could sell to a preferred bidder.

Bernie still faces a criminal prosecution in Germany (for making a suspected corrupt payment to a banker in the sale of F1).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:41 pm 
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Formula 1's near-misses
Formula 1's near-misses
We've not seen many grands prix lost in the closing moments over the last few years, but unreliability has cost many a good drive victory in the past. KEVIN TURNER picks out a few of the harshest

There have been times in recent seasons - 2013 British Grand Prix aside - when Formula 1 seems to have banished unreliability, but the new engine regulations could change all that this year.

If testing is anything to go by, there is a good chance we'll see some late heartbreak in grands prix in 2014. With that in mind, we thought we'd take a look at some of the best - or worst - late failures in F1 history.


Anyone want to share that article? From Autosport. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:51 pm 
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dicksplaash wrote:
Quote:
Formula 1's near-misses
Formula 1's near-misses
We've not seen many grands prix lost in the closing moments over the last few years, but unreliability has cost many a good drive victory in the past. KEVIN TURNER picks out a few of the harshest

There have been times in recent seasons - 2013 British Grand Prix aside - when Formula 1 seems to have banished unreliability, but the new engine regulations could change all that this year.

If testing is anything to go by, there is a good chance we'll see some late heartbreak in grands prix in 2014. With that in mind, we thought we'd take a look at some of the best - or worst - late failures in F1 history.


Anyone want to share that article? From Autosport. :)


Yep, just been reading it. Here you go...

Autosport.com wrote:
Formula 1's near-misses
We've not seen many grands prix lost in the closing moments over the last few years, but unreliability has cost many a good drive victory in the past. KEVIN TURNER picks out a few of the harshest

By Kevin Turner
AUTOSPORT features editor


There have been times in recent seasons - 2013 British Grand Prix aside - when Formula 1 seems to have banished unreliability, but the new engine regulations could change all that this year.

If testing is anything to go by, there is a good chance we'll see some late heartbreak in grands prix in 2014. With that in mind, we thought we'd take a look at some of the best - or worst - late failures in F1 history.

As you can imagine for a championship in its seventh decade, there are a lot to choose from: our original 'short list' had almost 100 races. But here are just some of the late-race failures that have denied drivers over the decades.

Monaco madness

Hill leads Clark in 1963

The streets of Monte Carlo have often been the scene of dramatic races, and in a four-year spell between 1959 and 1963 the runaway leader was not the driver who took the chequered flag.

In 1959 Stirling Moss built up a lead of nearly a minute in Rob Walker's Cooper, after an early fight with Jean Behra's Ferrari, only to suffer a transmission failure after 80 of the 100 laps. Works Cooper driver Jack Brabham was thus left to record his first world championship GP victory.

Graham Hill ended his career with five victories around the principality, but it could have been more. Hill's BRM had battled Jim Clark in 1962 until the Lotus hit clutch and engine issues.

According to AUTOSPORT's Gregor Grant, "the race looked like being a walkover", but the BRM's engine expired with eight laps left to run, handing victory to Bruce McLaren.

Monaco paid Hill back the following year, comfortable leader Clark suffering a seized gearbox in the closing stages.

A rare lucky win for Clark...

Hill McLaren battle Spa 1964

Clark often won his races from the front, but at Spa in 1964 he took victory after starting the last lap in fourth!

Up ahead were Graham Hill's BRM, the Cooper of Bruce McLaren (both pictured above) and erstwhile leader Dan Gurney, who had been set to take Brabham's first victory until an aborted stop for fuel cost him his 40-second lead.

On that final tour, Hill's fuel pump packed up and Gurney's BT7 ran dry. McLaren took the lead but as he approached the final corner he too ran out of fuel. He had sufficient momentum to make it to the line, but not quickly enough: Clark swept by to beat the Cooper to the flag by three seconds.

And then the Lotus ran out of fuel...

...but two titles lost late on

Clark 1962

Between 1962 and '65 the combination of Clark and Lotus boss Colin Chapman was F1's benchmark, but it was prevented from completing a Red Bull-like title streak by unreliability in title showdowns.

Clark qualified on pole for the 1962 South African GP (on December 29!), against rival Hill's BRM. The Lotus set a new lap record and led most of the race too, but a small bolt retaining oil in the distributor drive housing worked loose, leaving Hill to take the win and the title.

AUTOSPORT reported the outcome of the 1964 finale between Clark, Hill and John Surtees like this: "On the final lap of the Mexican GP, Dan Gurney's Brabham flashed past into the lead as Jim Clark's Lotus spattered to a standstill."

Clark had done all he could, leading from the off and it was once again only an oil-related failure that stopped him. An oil leak eventually forced engine failure on the final lap.

With Hill having already tangled with Surtees' Ferrari team-mate Lorenzo Bandini, Surtees nipped through to take second and the championship.

"After some of the misfortune that had befallen us, on this occasion I had a bit of fortune because Jim retired," says Surtees today.

Amon's cruellest blow?

Amon Canada 1968

Chris Amon's bad luck is legendary and his near-misses could provide enough examples for a feature on their own. But which was his worst near miss?

For showing a cool head under the pressure of his first pole, the 1968 Spanish GP is a contender, but there were some key absences from the event, most notably Jackie Stewart.

Amon matched Jochen Rindt's pole time and, in the first GP in which every car was fitted with wings, flew into the lead at the start.

The man himself picks out the 1972 French GP, in which he was denied by a puncture, as his best race. And yet perhaps his most dominant performance was the 1968 Canadian GP for Ferrari.

As Rindt's Brabham and the Lotus of Jo Siffert wilted, Amon pulled clear, despite the fact he had been forced to make clutchless gear changes virtually from the start.

He increased his lead over eventual winner Denny Hulme to more than a minute at one stage, an advantage which lasted until lap 73 of 90 when Amon's gearbox finally cried enough.

Brabham denied after titanic duel

By 1970, Jack Brabham was a 44-year-old three-time world champion nearing retirement. Jochen Rindt was the young star who looked to finally have equipment worthy of his talent in the Lotus 72. But at Brands Hatch in 1970, the 'old' man's BT33 had Rindt beaten, only to lose the race within sight of the flag. Twice.

AUTOSPORT's report said: "It must be a very long time since there was such an intensely dramatic motor race as the British GP. On a slippery, oily circuit Brabham tailed Rindt relentlessly for more than 60 laps, and then swept by to establish a comfortable lead, only to run out of fuel on the run into the finish on the very last lap and coast over the line a bitterly disappointed second."

Brabham briefly got the win back when the Lotus was thrown out for its rear wing being too high, but (after much discussion about the position and bend in the wing) was reinstated.

Ronnie's rotten reliability

Ronnie Peterson

With nine pole positions, it's not hard to make a case for Ronnie Peterson being the quickest driver of 1973, albeit with the caveat that his Lotus 72 was almost certainly an easier car than world champion Jackie Stewart's Tyrrell 006.

A string of retirements damaged Peterson's campaign beyond repair, despite four victories. And three lost maximums can arguably be pinpointed as the difference between third in the table and taking the crown:

Spanish GP - Takes lead from pole and is well clear with 20 laps to go. Then the gearbox breaks, handing victory to team-mate Emerson Fittipaldi. "Whatever the eventual outcome, he had proven himself the moral winner," wrote AUTOSPORT's Pete Lyons.

Swedish GP - Leads 78 laps of his 80-lap home race from pole, albeit with several cars in close attendance throughout. A puncture means he loses out to the McLaren of Denny Hulme, who in fairness had charged back into contention after his own early delay.

Dutch GP - Overshadowed by the scandalous events surrounding the death of Roger Williamson, the meeting provides a familiar story: Peterson builds a big lead from pole, then retires, this time with both engine and gearbox issues.

Wattie's nearest near-miss

John Watson

John Watson and the Brabham BT45 made for a formidable combination in 1977. But not a lucky one. 'Wattie' led four races, set two fastest laps and a pole, but ended the year with just nine points.

The most agonisingly late failure came at the French GP at Dijon. Watson jumped poleman Mario Andretti at the start and, once by early leader James Hunt's McLaren, only had the Lotus to worry about.

In the latter stages, Andretti closed on the Brabham, but Watson remained in control and it looked like he had done enough going on to the 80th and final lap.

Then, despite the team putting in more fuel than it had calculated was necessary, the Brabham coughed low on petrol. It was enough for Andretti, himself the victim of late issues at the race before in Sweden, to sneak through for victory.

"I feel sorry for John," he said afterwards. "He did a beautiful job today and never made any mistake that I saw."

Although Watson's luck wouldn't change in 1977, Andretti's would: for the worse. At one stage he led the Canadian GP by a lap, but a blown engine less than three laps from home handed that race to Jody Scheckter.

Renault's turbo troubles

Renault troubles

Renault paid quite a price for being the turbo pioneer in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The number of possible wins lost for the rapid yellow machines were numerous, but some were closer calls than others. Here are some of the most unfortunate victims:

1980 Brazilian GP - Jean-Pierre Jabouille retires from a comfortable lead with turbo failure, though team-mate Rene Arnoux picks up the pieces to win. "He had by far the worst of the early turbo technology," says Derek Warwick, Renault driver in 1984-85, of Jabouille. "He had the pain of the early days, and they were a big pain."

1981 British GP - Alain Prost and Arnoux qualify 0.046s apart, almost a second clear of the field. They dominate the race, but both hit engine trouble while leading, Arnoux with only 15 laps to go.

1982 Austrian GP - Famous for Elio de Angelis holding off Keke Rosberg in one of F1's closest finishes, this race looked to be heading Prost's way. After early problems for the other quick turbos, Prost was 27s out in front with just five laps to go. Then his electronic injection system failed.

1982 Swiss GP - Just two weeks later, Renault had another nightmare. Arnoux's challenge to Prost faded with more electronic injection issues and then a damaged skirt on his RE30B allowed Prost to fall prey to Rosberg with less than two laps to go.

1984 Brazilian GP - When Niki Lauda's McLaren failed and Prost stopped his for tyres, Warwick moved his RE50 into the lead. He was 35s clear with 11 laps to go when his front suspension - bent in earlier contact with Lauda - failed.

Arrows misses its target

Damon Hill Arrows Hungary

The Arrows squad, which raced in F1 between 1978 and 2002, is famous for not having won a GP. But it should really have scored two, separated by almost 20 years.

At the 1978 South African GP its young Italian driver Riccardo Patrese pulled something of a surprise. In the lead group from the start, Patrese moved his FA1 through to the lead on lap 27 and simply pulled away.

He led until 15 laps from the end, when his DFV blew.

Even then the drama hadn't finished. Patrick Depailler's Tyrrell took over the lead, but was under threat from the charging Ronnie Peterson. Depailler was also running out of fuel and, despite some wheel-banging, couldn't prevent the Lotus from coming by on the final lap.
Patrese slows
Patrese slows during the 1978 South African Grand Prix © LAT

But it should all have been for second.

Fast-forward almost two decades and there was another surprise Arrows performance. Reigning world champion Damon Hill had qualified 5.4s off the pace at the season opener, but Tom Walkinshaw's team made progress.

At the Hungaroring, a track Hill often ran well at, the A18 had a new rear wing and it all came together. Almost.

Crucially, the soft Goodyear tyres run by the fancied teams suffered blistering, leaving Hill to make best use of his Bridgestones.

From third on the grid Hill jumped a slow-starting Jacques Villeneuve, then started pressuring Michael Schumacher's Ferrari. As Schuey started hitting tyre issues, Hill pounced on the run down to Turn 1.

The Arrows then started lapping 3-4s faster than the Ferrari, which had a queue of cars forming behind it. Heinz-Harald Frentzen, a rare Goodyear runner to select the hard compound, looked the most likely threat, but he lost his fuel tank connector, and therefore his ability to refuel.

Into the closing stages, Hill thus held a half-minute lead over Villeneuve's Williams. Then, with three laps to go, a hydraulics problem started causing throttle and gearbox woes.

Villeneuve closed in, moving ahead - with the help of a little grass - on the final tour.

"The emotions are a bit mixed because I would love to have won," said Hill afterwards. "It's a bit bitter to come so close, but we should be celebrating, because we came second, and were running ahead of everyone for a long time with a car that was written off completely at the start of the season."

Piquet's lucky track

Piquet gives Prost a lift

Some drivers just have a knack at a certain circuit, but sometimes the strength of their results at a particular circuit seem to lie outside of their control.

Nelson Piquet's record at Hockenheim reads three victories, and that's despite the infamous clash with Eliseo Salazar in 1982. But two of his German GP victories came at the expense of a chief rival and helped set him up for the crown:

1981 - Piquet's win was against the odds, given that he had been fighting ill handling after an early clash with Arnoux. But Alan Jones was the star. He hounded the powerful Renault of Prost and dived by when the Frenchman was baulked by team-mate Arnoux while lapping him! It took until lap 39 of the 44 for Williams's DFV misfire, a feature of its 1981 season, to lose Jones the lead to Piquet.

1987 - AUTOSPORT's Nigel Roebuck: "At this rate, the world championship is going to Nelson Piquet. For half of the German GP, the Brazilian's Williams-Honda ran a distant third behind Prost and [Nigel] Mansell. Nigel's chase of the world champion ended with a seized engine, which elevated Nelson to his customary second place. And there he ran until lap 40, with four to go, at which point Alain's alternator belt broke. In 1981 Piquet inherited a late race victory at Hockenheim from Alan Jones, and went on to take the world championship. And the 1987 deposit account is building nicely."

Mansell loses his nut

Mansell Hungary 1987

Mansell and drama were never far apart, whether it was crashing on a white line, losing a title with a high-speed engine failure or losing wheels.

Perhaps the most costly example of the latter came in the 1987 Hungarian GP, when Mansell led for 70 of the 76 laps before the right-rear wheelnut came off. And to make matters worse, it was Williams team-mate and title rival Piquet who inherited victory.

"It was too bad," wrote Roebuck. "Mansell had laid claim to this race even more than had Prost at Hockenheim. Yet neither got a point from their domination - and Piquet picked up nine each time.

"One had the feeling that if he had fallen from his hotel's top floor, there would have been a truck full of foam rubber passing by at the time."

Engine failure ends de Cesaris charge

de Cesaris Spa 1991

The lapchart for the 1991 Belgian GP shows that Nigel Mansell, Jean Alesi and Ayrton Senna set the pace.

Mansell and Alesi both looked set to win before electrical and engine problems respectively, and Senna took the flag despite gearbox problems. But this could have been a victory for Jordan, then in its first season.

F1 debutant Michael Schumacher might have stolen the show in qualifying, but it was the other 191 that nearly won. Andrea de Cesaris climbed from 11th to second and was putting Senna under pressure in the closing stages.

The Jordan's water temperature was climbing, but the team decided to press on. Could he catch Senna? The answer came on lap 42 instead of the scheduled 44 when the Ford engine let go.

Gary Anderson, then Jordan technical director, recalls: "Cosworth had changed the pistons and the oil consumption was higher as a consequence. Cosworth always worked out the consumption per lap from our oil dip, but didn't tell us it had increased. We did have more capacity available, particularly as it was Spa because through Eau Rouge oil surge can be a problem. In the end, that's what killed the engine."

Mansell's Monaco jinx strikes again

Mansell Monaco

Having led comfortably for 70 of the 78 laps in Monaco in 1992, Mansell had a moment in the tunnel and decided to pit for tyres in his Williams FW14B. It wasn't a puncture, nor a wheelbearing, though then-Williams designer Adrian Newey conceded it could have been a wheelnut.

Whatever, it handed the lead to Ayrton Senna.

At the end of lap 72 of 78 the gap was 5.1s, but that was just 2s two laps later as Mansell put in a new lap record almost two seconds faster than anyone else managed.

It was now arguably a fight between F1's best defender and its greatest overtaker. Even with new tyres the Williams was unable to find a way by in the tight confines of Monte Carlo and Senna held on by 0.2s.

"All round the circuit Mansell jinked and bobbed behind the McLaren, darting this way and that, looking for a gap that Senna never left," reported Roebuck.

Ferrari farce at Monza

Berger Monza 1995

The 1995 Italian GP was scene of one of the Hill/Schumacher clashes, but it's often forgotten that Gerhard Berger was ahead of the incident and leading, once David Coulthard's Williams had dropped out.

The Williams-Benetton crash put Jean Alesi into second and a slow pitstop for Berger swapped the Ferraris around. Berger's bad luck had only just started, however: the onboard camera flew off his team-mate's car and struck Berger's left-front suspension, breaking the steering.

"It was terrifying," Berger admitted. "I just saw this thing coming towards me at 180mph. I'm just glad it hit the car and not me."

Alesi, who had dominated at Monza the year before until a gearbox failure, was now clear. He made it to lap 46 of 53 before a wheelbearing failure ended yet another chance for the French-Sicilian to take a GP win.

Team boss Jean Todt said: "In all my long professional career, I have never known such bitter disappointment."

McLaren's unlucky 1997

Hakkinen Britain 1997

There were times when the MP4/12 was the fastest car during 1997, but David Coulthard and Mika Hakkinen didn't always have the best luck:

Canadian GP - Coulthard was leading when he came in for tyres. A clutch issue meant he stalled and dropped out of contention, but the race was soon stopped when Olivier Panis suffered a leg-breaking accident in the Ligier. Had DC stayed out a lap longer, he would have won on countback behind the safety car.

British GP - Hakkinen was leading in the closing stages with Villeneuve's Williams, on fresh rubber, hunting him down. With six laps to go they were together, then Hakkinen's engine blew. "I had everything under control, there was no way he could have got past," reckoned Hakkinen. "I think for sure I could have got him," countered Villeneuve.

Luxembourg GP - On lap 42 of 67 Hakkinen led Coulthard in a McLaren one-two. Next time around DC's Mercedes engine blew up and Mika's followed on the very next tour, while he was in the lead by 17 seconds.

Montoya has to wait

Montoya

Despite his explosive arrival into Formula 1, Juan Pablo Montoya still hadn't scored a pole or a win when he arrived at Hockenheim for the 12th round of 2001.

On a weekend that his Williams-BMW team dominated, Montoya took pole and was 10 seconds clear of team-mate Ralf Schumacher when he came in for his one and only stop.

A refuelling flow problem delayed him and, shortly after he returned to the fray, Montoya's engine failed.

In his column for AUTOSPORT, Montoya wrote: "It is not very often that I cannot find the words to describe how disappointed I feel, but that's exactly what I am like after the German Grand Prix. It's not the fact that I retired that is so difficult to accept, but that the weekend had been going so well. But I think I've got enough experience in motor racing to understand that when luck is against you, there is nothing you can do.

"When we arrived there was great expectation on us thanks to our very powerful BMW engines, but I was surprised how dominant we were.

"I was driving well within the limit of the machinery. I know there were some comments made by Ralf afterwards that I had been pushing too hard and he was saving his engine, but that wasn't the case at all. I think the team data shows we were using the same revs and driving in the same manner."

Kimi gamble doesn't pay off

Raikkonen Nurburgring 2005

Kimi Raikkonen's McLaren MP4-20 and the Renault R25 of Fernando Alonso were generally the class acts of the 2005 season. Alonso's early form, along with some unreliability for Raikkonen, meant it was the McLaren man who was playing catch-up. And few races encapsulated their battle as well as the European GP at the Nurburgring.

At around half-distance, and with a fuel stop soon to come, Kimi was attempting to eke out a little more than the 18 or so seconds he had over Alonso. He made a mistake at Turn 5 and went off, removing some of the McLaren's right bargeboard. That then contributed to a lock-up as Raikkonen tried to lap Villeneuve's Sauber that flatspotted the right-front.

This was the season requiring that races be run on one set of tyres and McLaren decided not to change it to avoid having to argue it was in a dangerous state after the race.

Raikkonen thus continued, with the relentless Alonso closing him down. With a lap to go, the McLaren was still 1.6s ahead, but the gamble didn't pay off. The front upper wishbone collapsed after covering so many miles with the vibration from the flatspot, sending Kimi out of control at the end of the start/finish straight. Alonso's points lead grew to 32.

Even Vettel can lose out

Vettel Korea 2010

There's no doubt the reliability in F1 has been impressive in recent years, including pacesetter Red Bull.

Nevertheless, even 39-time GP winner Sebastian Vettel can point to three more races he probably should have won:

2010 Bahrain GP - After starting from pole, Vettel seemed to have the Ferraris of Alonso and Felipe Massa beaten when a spark plug failed with 15 laps to go and he fell to fourth.

2010 Korean GP - In difficult conditions and with team-mate and title rival Mark Webber already having crashed, Vettel was holding off Alonso and looking set to take the points lead when his Renault engine failed.

2012 European GP - Vettel had been in command for much of the Valencia weekend, at least until lap 34 of the 57-lapper when alternator failure allowed his engine to die. Alonso thus scored a remarkable win from row six.

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sebbl wrote:
1:34.910 min by Kevin Magnussen... they're getting faster and faster!


I'm starting to think the combustion engines really give more power than the initial expectation of 600HP. Even if not 700, it can be around 670HP which would gain 2s over the 2013s and thus lead to 1-2s of gap

That Renault simulation showing 315kmh at the s/f line of Barcelona doesn't seem to be wrong now if they really peak at +- 830HP


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:07 pm 
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mclaren2008 wrote:
These are the qual times for the 2 Super Aguri's at the 2006 race:

Takuma Sato 1:37.411
Yuji Ide 1:40.270


Here are the qualifying times of the 2 Super Aguri's for the 2006 San Marino race:

Takuma Sato - 1:27.609
Yuji Ide - 1:29.282

You see, I can also post something that has as next to no relevance to the F1 testing in Bahrain.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:16 pm 
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I wish Porsche and Webber could be at the track next week, and set a time faster than Vettel in the Red Bull. lolz.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:26 pm 
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I would imagine the somewhat competitive nature of the laptimes is due to the fact that Bahrain has a lot of straights in which the cars can really let their turbo power work.

The lap time difference will be more evident on slower circuits.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Tobias wrote:
I would imagine the somewhat competitive nature of the laptimes is due to the fact that Bahrain has a lot of straights in which the cars can really let their turbo power work.

The lap time difference will be more evident on slower circuits.


You mean F1 vs. LMP1 or among the F1 field?

I think it doesn't really matter anyway, if F1 vs. LMP1. LMP1 cars have a lot more downforce, more top-end horsepower, but can't use all of the power as long as F1 cars can. And, of course, weight.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Tobias wrote:
I would imagine the somewhat competitive nature of the laptimes is due to the fact that Bahrain has a lot of straights in which the cars can really let their turbo power work.

The lap time difference will be more evident on slower circuits.


I would imagine that, seeing as we know that no-one is close to running at full PU power, the opposite will probably apply.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:34 pm 
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It was said in Jerez that Mercedes and Ferrari engines would be ran at their 15k rpm in Bahrain. Do you have any source claiming they are still stuck in the 13k?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:48 pm 
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how they limit the revs? wouldn't it be possible to change for more power in qualy or scrutineering might know that they broke the rules?

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