2014 Random F1 Discussion

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:52 pm

Yeah, there's that. I'm sure there was a quote which went along the lines of:

Mechanics: Why didn't you mention X before?
Kimi: I did, you just didn't listen.

Something to do with Kimi saying what needed doing once but the mechanics frequently not listening intently enough.

OS · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:58 pm

Numerous stories from Lauda (some seemed a little embellished) of the same thing at Ferrari during his time there, generally involving Montezemelo if I recall, which I might not do as I last read all of this stuff about ten years ago.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:27 pm

Scotty wrote:

NVirkkula wrote:

Kimi has brought around same amount of GP wins than Alonso for the Ferrari, but he's also brought three championships while Alonso could go do some marketing for Audi with his streak of 0000, although, Audi probably is not that keen to pay for negative publicity as Santander and Ferrari seems to be happy to do. This year Alonso will have his final season for the Ferrari and the end is not going to get him to the Ferrari hall of fame. Räikkönen already has the upper hand on him on the mind games.

That is such complete garbage!

Kimi brought "three" championships to the team? What on his own? So he scored every single point and his teammate scored none? This is narrow minded rubbish.

"Two" of those champions McLaren threw away. Without rookie errors from Hamilton, Kimi would have nothing to his name. Kimi did well to capatilize, but it wasn't outstanding drives that won him the championship. He didn't win it, others lost it. In his second year, he didn't bring shit, Massa "brought" the championship, fact is he scored way more points. What you are implying is that championships make Kimi better than Alonso, so does that mean he is a better Ferrari driver than Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost and Gilles Villeneuve?

Alonso has had a disgracefully mediocre team mate who's best form was seen before his head injury. Alonso has had to go up against the 2nd greatest Formula 1 dynasty in history (only 2000-2004 Ferrari matches it). Even when he had a mediocre car, he is always a threat.

And how has he got the upper hand on his team mate? How? And you're the man on the ground he confirmed to you its going to be his last season at Ferrari? Or is it your arsehole talking again? Alonso will comfortably beat Kimi, Kimi will probably cry his way back to rallying like he did in 2009. Leopards don't change their spots.

My arsehole talking? Again?

Wow, that escalated quickly.

The reason why Kimi already has the upper hand on Alonso is basically what phil1993 said: Alonso plays politics, Kimi doesn't give a shit. In the end, Alonso boils only his own mind, again. Also, Kimi has 2+1 deal with the Ferrari, while Alonso has two years with McLaren-Honda constantly giving him the green light to join them. Alonso is the one who leaves Maranello by the end of the year, judging by his own antics he's been using since the last summer. I believe in this and there's no arsehole talk in this. Maybe it's just you, who sees everyone else as an arsehole? You can have your own opinions if you don't like mine, that's fine. Just keep your foul language down a bit and someone might respect your dissenting opinion a bit more.

James B · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:17 pm

Why do you all assume that Alonso will try and play mindgames that you are so certain won't work? If anyone would know whether or not they would work and make an informed decision based on that, it's the man who actually knows the other man

I can't see anything other than a 2010 McLaren Hamilton/Button situation - Alonso will come out on top but some will be surprised how close Kimi gets, leading them to believe it was closer than it actually was. There won't be any problems between them because there's no real personality clash there. The last couple of high-profile driver partnerships that people assumed would end in a big bust-up (Hamilton/Button and Alonso/Massa) never really fully ignited - it's always the way with these things

The one that's most likely to end in tears is Button/Magnussen, because most of the time these things only happen when people don't expect them too - one driver gets jealous when he is surprisingly challenged by his team mate. Given that it wouldn't be a surprise if Kimi pushed Alonso hard, I don't see it being a big deal - neither of them will be under any illusions there. Massa's far more highly-strung than Alonso, and he and Kimi never had problems - at least publicly. And of course it's pretty obvious now that the "falling-out" between Alonso and Hamilton was hugely overexaggerated by the media in order to make a good story

kals · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:33 pm

People are making those assumptions James based on Alonso's track record, which dates back to 2005.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:44 pm

The difference between Hamilton Button and Kimi Alonso is that Mclaren is famous for being equal towards it's drivers, whereas if there's even a hint from Alonso's point of view that they're favouring Kimi he'll be either whining so hard we'll all be sick of them or out and running towards Mclaren.

Alonso is used to preferential treatment and the one time when he got merely equal treatment, he spit the dummy, made sure he held him up and sold his own team down the river in the process.

Forget Vettel, this is Alonso's biggest challenge since 07.

However, there's every chance he's matured since then, or has a mclaren contract in his pocket, or is thinking more about joining webber in sportscars or something else that he might know and we don't, so this powderkeg we're all predicting to go off at some point also might just remain simmering and not quite be as climatic as we're assuming.

RtN · PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:49 pm

Valsecchi is another ex-Lotus employee who to date has not received penny one from Genii.

Makes you wonder exactly how many of the non-driver employees are getting paid.

James B · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:13 am

kals wrote:

People are making those assumptions James based on Alonso's track record, which dates back to 2005.

Alonso's track record dates back to 2001:

Marques - no problem
Yoong - no problem
Trulli - no problem
Fisichella - no problem
Hamilton - got feisty for a little bit but his beef was with Ron and the team more than Lewis himself
Piquet Jr - no problem
Grosjean - no problem
Massa - no problem

So yeah, his track record suggests no problems

This whole "reputation" thing is based on a few small things that were incredibly sensationalised by the media. And in any case, it seems very likely that he was correct in criticising McLaren for favouring Lewis, because that's pretty much what they were doing. Whoever's responsibility that was is up for debate, and he may not have handled himself brilliantly, but the point is it was happening, which was exactly what Ron was said they wouldn't do. If I was told that something would happen by my boss and then he did the total opposite, I think I'd feel pretty betrayed too

That this is pretty much the same thing Prost found in 1989 adds weight to that. This isn't the same as Mansell complaining about Ferrari when he'd signed a number two contract and spent more time on the golf course than testing - Prost and Alonso are the two of the most committed, hard-working F1 drivers ever and they both said Ron Dennis and McLaren stabbed them in the back, so that's probably not a coincidence

kals · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:38 am

James, I'm not simply referring to relationships Alonso has had with other drivers (yes I agree certain things are sensationalized). Here's something I wrote during the 2013 Monaco GP weekend when we were discussing Alonso's behavior as a result of that "special" helmet. This goes someway to explain Alonso's behavioral traits versus people's assumptions as to how he'll cope in 2014

kals wrote:

RtN wrote:

Hungary 2007 says otherwise.

And no, not the pitlane hold-up mess.

Not forgetting...

- Canada 2005 (complaints about Fisi during the race)
- Late 2005 (saying the team wasn't fully supporting his title effort, did the same in late 2006)
- Pre-season 2006 (going behind his manager's and Renault's back by signing for McLaren)
- USA 2007 (see Canada 2005, replace Fisi with Lewis)
- Singapore 2008 (Piquet)
- Germany 2010 ("Fernando is faster than you...")

Then there's the bitching against Ferrari throughout 2012 as well as the points ellis mentioned earlier. If this was 1991, he'd have received the same treatment given to Prost back then... by Renault in late 2005, McLaren mid-season 2007 and Ferrari during most parts of 2012.

I don't necessarily agree that Alonso will have any problems in 2014, but he's got a track record of being unable to handle certain situations within all of his teams bar Minardi so you can understand people's assumptions.

James B · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:54 am

Well, it was never proven that he was involved in Singapore 2008 and all the indications seem to suggest he was kept hidden from it - I'm not sure if it's totally true or not but I recently read that the FIA brought in specialist investigators to try and prove he was involved but they actually ended up concluding that he had nothing to do with it, because there was literally nothing to suggest he was in on it

As for Germany 2010, I don't ever remember him saying/doing anything in that situation - that was all between Massa and the team, and was an entirely logical pragmatic decision. Ferrari made a complete hash of the PR afterwards but Alonso and Massa kept their mouths shut, which was the right thing to do

As for the other stuff, it may not have been particularly nice or entirely professional, but there are very few top drivers out there who haven't said things like that. It's because they are human beings, and human beings say stupid things. If they never said anything stupid, F1 would be tedious and the drivers would be totally without charm. I like Alonso because he's clearly slightly unhinged, not in spite of that

kals · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:03 am

You and I are in agreement with what you've just mentioned. There are question marks around certain actions and so on. But the four words I've highlighted below are almost exactly what we all tend to say about Alonso, just in different ways...

James B wrote:

I like Alonso because he's clearly slightly unhinged

...and thus causes the assumptions.

By the way, we all agree that every driver has his own traits... Button moans, Hamilton is a little bit of a dbag, Raikkonen clearly doesn't give a monkey's (about anything).

codename_47 · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:05 am

To do my own quote edits....

James B wrote:

kals wrote:

People are making those assumptions James based on Alonso's track record, which dates back to 2005.

Alonso's track record dates back to 2001:

Marques - no problem-I assume preferential treatement, but it's Marques so even if they favoured Tarso, Alonso would blow him away
Yoong - no problem Ditto.
Trulli - no problem- Preferential treatement over him.
Fisichella - no problem-Preferential treatement over him, the one time he was ahead and told to overtake Fishy, he fumed.
Hamilton - got feisty for a little bit but his beef was with Ron and the team more than Lewis himself- Equal treatment for the first time in his career. Was furious about this, expected preferential treatment over the rookie.
Piquet Jr - no problem-Preferential treatment. (Nothing has been proven but Alonso is continually referred to as the best thinking driver in the races, so if he didn't once ask "Hey guys, when are we pitting? What do you mean on that lap? That makes no sense! Well what if the Safety car DOESN'T come out? What do you mean Don't worry about it?" then it paints him as at best a bit dim" )
Grosjean - no problem-Preferential treatment
Massa - no problem-Preferential treatment.

So yeah, his track record suggests no problems *When given preferential treatment*

This whole "reputation" thing is based on a few small things that were incredibly sensationalised by the media. And in any case, it seems very likely that he was correct in criticising McLaren for favouring Lewis, because that's pretty much what they were doing. Whoever's responsibility that was is up for debate, and he may not have handled himself brilliantly, but the point is it was happening, which was exactly what Ron was said they wouldn't do. If I was told that something would happen by my boss and then he did the total opposite, I think I'd feel pretty betrayed too

That this is pretty much the same thing Prost found in 1989 adds weight to that. This isn't the same as Mansell complaining about Ferrari when he'd signed a number two contract and spent more time on the golf course than testing - Prost and Alonso are the two of the most committed, hard-working F1 drivers ever and they both said Ron Dennis and McLaren stabbed them in the back, so that's probably not a coincidence

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:11 am

EsbenT wrote:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/p4z3b5

Please excuse the newspaper article on the first page. I'm making fun of a friend of mine who is a journalist in my local newspaper, and I forgot that I was scanning everything to the same document

Cheers for posting that, but wish I hadn't downloaded it now. That sendspace thing just installs a bunch of unwanted crap into all your browsers even if you say no during install. Why not just post the PDF?

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:13 am

Ok, I don't want to troll the thread neither convince anybody of my view on this. It's just my opinion/impression based on my close following of the sport through the career of both.

I'm not expecting, at all, a close fight between Kimi and Alonso. IMHO, the Spaniard is head and shoulders better. His significantly faster, imho, in qualifying, race pace, wet track, tactics and adapting to several car's handling

Again, don't wanna convince anybody of this. This is just to put on record what I think will happen in case it does happen, people won't say nobody could have expected it

PS:I was never a fan of Alonso, neither a hater of Kimi

PS2: I will be happy to be proven wrong as many people I get along here are Kimi fans like NVirkkulla and Tobias, for instance.

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:16 am

My heart wants to believe that Kimi will kick Alonso's ass.

My logical brain knows it won't be the case, except occasionnally (but that has been covered in this thread with Massa vs Alonso, Berger vs. Senna etc etc)

Tobias · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:53 am

have to agree with coldtyre on this. I'm open to positive surprises though.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:57 am

Oh well, if Alonso does hit the self-destruct button, there's always a career as the Dolmio ambassador calling.

EsbenT · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:07 am

Philthy82 wrote:

Cheers for posting that, but wish I hadn't downloaded it now. That sendspace thing just installs a bunch of unwanted crap into all your browsers even if you say no during install. Why not just post the PDF?

Sorry. But it's because that was the quickest and easiest way for me to upload it. You are (or somebody else is) more than welcome to re-upload it with a more reliable host and I'll change the link.

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:26 am

It is just a PDF. Untick the box that asks if you want the installer and it sends you to the PDF.

kals · PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:49 pm

One thing I'm struggling to understand, is that people truly believe Alonso will trounce all over Kimi. These are two of the best drivers in the sport over the past 10 years, both have strengths and weaknesses, and yet people have already written Kimi off. Utterly strange.

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