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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
They just had Kenny Brack do a test didn't they?

Complain all you want about Team Rahal not doing the test properly but Brack was the fittest driver around at the time. He was one of the few that wasn't effected at all by the speeds that weekend.


The book's gone back to the library now but I'm 99% sure it said Brack did 5 laps and declared the track safe, in the December before, it wasn't a particularly detailed test.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:43 pm 
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The wiki entry (in my post above) says something slightly different.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Hotdogger wrote:
I don't think he meant that the decision was embarrassing but the situation, which it was for having to cancel a race and send the fans back home.


Correct. The decision was absolutely the right thing to do. But the situation itself was embarrassing in that it wasn't caught in testing (also, despite the known problems, the race wasn't cancelled until 2 hours before the event, which is a touch slow in my opinion).

I was also sort of responding to the NASCAR speed post. Last year they qualified at roughly 215mph now. They only have about a 15mph window to hit the speeds that caused the vertigo issues. Frankly I'd love to see more power in these cars, but one thing I think that would have to happen is that Texas would either have to be dropped or have some special rule to keep them under 230.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:26 pm 
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kals wrote:
The wiki entry (in my post above) says something slightly different.


haha I'd rather take the word of someone man enough to write in a book AJ Foyt considered all non-Americans gay and Bobby Rahal was incompetent than Wiki ;)

But wherever the truth lies, the tests were done at a completely different time of the year than the race and, I can get it out again if you want, I'm pretty sure Rahal refused to sanction other tests nearer the race and insisted it was safe, and the guy who took over from him basically said the same.

I think it was something about Vertical G loading and not the regular type they G that was causing the problem, after about 10 laps so much blood would have drained from the drivers heads into the body that they would suffer an effect similar to being on a roundabout, and so were correcting the car when it wasn't stepping out. Both the practice crashes were caused by this, and most drivers hadn't done more than 5 consecutive laps.


Last edited by Ian-S on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Ian-S wrote:
kals wrote:
The wiki entry (in my post above) says something slightly different.


haha I'd rather take the word of someone man enough to write in a book AJ Foyt considered all non-Americans gay and Bobby Rahal was incompetent than Wiki ;)


Yeah yeah, we all know how reliable wiki can be. :p

But still, there's some useful information in there. The way your post read, it suggested that only 5 laps of testing was done. Whereas the information in the wiki link suggests multiple teams tested over various times before the race. Perhaps Brack said the track was safe after his first 5 laps, but that's not how your post reads.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:34 pm 
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No it's pretty explicit in the book, it says Brack did 5 laps, got out and declared the track ok to run, Ovely or whatever his name is devotes a whole chapter to what happened at that race and the hugely critical of the incompetence of CART over the whole thing, he was frantically trying to get hold of a friend from NASA to come down and explain to CART what would happen if they raced because they didn't initially believe him, but the guy was already there, having driven up on a whim.

Some of the stuff that went on in CART was unbelievable, he seems to be a fan of Penske though, having used his jet to smuggle a nurse and drugs into Canada for Rick Mears (after his crash) and then use the same jet to take Mears back to Indy for surgery against the Canadian Doctors orders.


Last edited by Ian-S on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Pippa Mann will be in the #18 Dale Coyne car.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Servia teed up for the #4.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:01 am 
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For the land of free health care I always hear horror stories about dealing with Canadian medical facilities and staff.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:14 am 
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Amazon informs me I have the Olvey book somewhere, where I have it is a harder question to answer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:27 am 
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Dam it Jim I'm a doctor not a library, find it now, I want to know if I'm going mad or not... :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:47 am 
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Roberto Moreno mentions that he could feel his organs and blood move to one side.

But yes, the problem were the vertical Gs not the lateral Gs. The lateral Gs were actually slightly lower at Texas than Nazareth.

Watching those cars drive around that track must have been a sight.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:39 am 
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I have the CART 2001 Autocourse book and it says:

Quote:
The CART FedEx Championship Series' first-ever visit to Texas Motor Speedway ended in controversy when the excessive G-forces caused officials to call off the Firestone Firehawk 600, only two hours before it was supposed to start.

The first suggestions of potential strife came soon after interim CART President Bobby Rahal announced in July 2000 that the Champ Cars would make a maiden visit to Bruton Smith's magnificently equipped superspeedway. CART officials played down initial concerns about the extra-steep 24-degree banking and the bullet-like performance of the latest breed of Champ Cars, however, and fears were allayed partially when a brief test in February produced modest average speeds in the 223-mph range.

But warmer temperatures and continued engine development resulted in significantly higher lap speeds when the entire field took to the majestic facility for Friday morning's practice. Lap times continued to tumble as the weekend progressed. Kenny Bräck emerged quickest on Friday, with a lap of 22.821 seconds at 233.785 mph, which was a full second faster than Franchitti's best lap in testing. On Saturday morning, Franchitti's teammate, Paul Tracy, upped the ante to 22.542 seconds (236.678 mph).

Speeds were slightly slower during the traditional one-at-a-time qualifying session, due to the absence of a draft, but later, in the mandatory drivers' meeting, it became apparent that several competitors had experienced dizziness, light-headedness or signs of visual impairment after running long stints. Indeed, Dr. Steve Olvey, CART's director of medical affairs, discovered that all but four drivers had suffered some form of disorientation due to excessive G-loadings.

"I felt very, very concerned," said Dr. Olvey. "We really could not send drivers out in a situation that is totally unknown with the risk of having the driver becoming disoriented, confused, sick or actually becoming unconscious in the car trying to compete in the race."

Several methods of slowing the cars (including a reduction in turbo boost and an additional flap on the rear wing) were discussed during a series of emergency meetings on Saturday evening, but eventually it was decided that none would provide an effective cure and ensure the drivers' safety.

Finally, at 12 noon on Sunday, CART President and CEO Joe Heitzler made the following announcement: "It is disappointing, but yet necessary for me to announce that CART, along with its teams, its drivers, its manufacturers and sponsors have determined that we must postpone today's race. We have examined every conceivable alternative and have come to the conclusion that the situation we are faced with leads to this decision: that we cannot comfortably race today.

"On behalf of CART and all of its constituencies, we offer our sincerest apologies to the fans, to Texas Motor Speedway and to all of our sponsors who have entrusted us with this environment."


Then there is some more blah blah blah from Olvey and Michael Andretti...

And then a segment on qualifying:
Quote:
The first oval-track event of the new season, held in warm sunshine, saw the qualifying order determined not by practice speeds, as in the past, with the fastest driver running last, but by championship points, the series leader, Cristiano da Matta, taking the final run.

First to make an impression was Patrick Carpentier aboard Gerry Forsythe's Player's/Indeck Ford/Reynard. The Canadian was the second driver to make a qualifying attempt, after Alex Zanardi, and his best lap 22.864 seconds (233.345 mph) set a benchmark that would be tough to beat.

"The car was loose, but loose was good on this track for qualifying," declared Carpentier. "Team Player's removed all the downforce they could. We had a good strategy for the day and they gave me the car I was looking for."

In fact, only Team Rahal's Kenny Bräck was able to improve on Carpentier's effort, with his first lap at 22.854 seconds (233.447 mph). Bräck relied not only on his previous experience of the track, having clinched his IRL championship at TMS with a third-place finish in 1998, but also a well-balanced Shell Ford/Lola.

"I got all I could out of the car," he said, after snaring another championship point for his second pole in three races. "It felt good."

Ford Cosworth XF engines displayed a clear advantage, with Oriol Servia (Sigma Autosport Ford/Lola) and Bryan Herta (Zakspeed/Forsythe Ford/Reynard claiming third and fourth-fastest times. Servia's time was set on his first flying lap, which was just as well, because the engine let go as he sped into Turn One to begin lap two.

Shinji Nakano provided a surprise by posting a career-best fifth-fastest time in Fernandez Racing's Avex/Alpine Reynard. Nakano was also the fastest of the Honda contingent, followed by Zanardi (Pioneer/WorldCom Reynard) and Gil de Ferran (Marlboro Reynard). Christian Fittipaldi's Kmart Lola was the best-placed Toyota, in ninth.


I didn't proof-read so I apologize for any typos. :p

That 236 mph by Tracy isn't a typo either. 8O


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 am 
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iks wrote:


Roberto Moreno mentions that he could feel his organs and blood move to one side.

But yes, the problem were the vertical Gs not the lateral Gs. The lateral Gs were actually slightly lower at Texas than Nazareth.

Watching those cars drive around that track must have been a sight.



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:22 am 
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Driven and that Texas debacle all in one year. No wonder why CART died shortly after.

Telling sign? Turbo drops this year.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:02 am 
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Turbo will probably be a nice movie though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:46 am 
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Scotty wrote:
iks wrote:
But yes, the problem were the vertical Gs not the lateral Gs. The lateral Gs were actually slightly lower at Texas than Nazareth.


Yes and no, just thought I'd clarify this properly. Lateral Gs would've been the primary reason for the excessive stress. 230mph creates a huge centrifugal forces that pushes your body in towards the apex of the corner (high school physics), but the severity of the angle of the banking introduced an additional centrifugal force "out of plane" (fancy engineer talk for not horizontal). Vector notation (aka adding vertical and horizontal) meant you were increasing the force. You're right, but the way some people might read that is that the lateral G's did nothing. They most likely did most of the damage.


Olvey's book goes into some detail about why it wasn't lateral G's that caused the problem, as someone mentioned they were below that which you need a G suit for (and level with some road courses), it was mostly the vertical G's which was quiet literally draining the blood from the drivers brains that caused the main problem, combine the two and it was a receipe for disaster. Everbody wanted the data, NASA, USAF, USN etc. because it was the first and only time the two G's forces had been recorded together at the same time by telemetry systems, you can't simulate vertical G in a regular G simulator because they are centrifugal based, so if the person lays down to simulate vertical G, you can't then combine that with horizontal G at the same time (because the rig can only spin on one axis).

Centrifugal force doesn't push you in towards the apex either, it pushes you (your body) outwards away from the apex.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:41 am 
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Woodski wrote:
iks wrote:


Roberto Moreno mentions that he could feel his organs and blood move to one side.

But yes, the problem were the vertical Gs not the lateral Gs. The lateral Gs were actually slightly lower at Texas than Nazareth.

Watching those cars drive around that track must have been a sight.


That video is sped up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:44 am 
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235 mph around a 1.5 mile track is just absolutely crazy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:52 am 
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I remember getting really sad that day when race was cancelled but I didn't have enough notion of how dangerous that was. Cancelling the race was the best option indeed, those drivers were experiencing borderline g-forces that only fighter jet pilots endure and you still have to use special clothing, that one specific for blood circulation.

And that wasn't the only problem, If you had a big one like that IRL race in Atlanta or Las Vegas 2011, we would have an unprecedent tragedy.


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