2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Vassago · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:03 pm

C'mon, nobody said Rosberg was a dud. However as was the case with Schuey, the more high-profile teammate gets the first bit of the cherry regardless of the actual performance. Nico's career is destined to be overshadowed by his teammates despite him being on the German team. Makes me wish he stayed at Williams - who'd be right up there with the best - since that was his chance to shine. And he'd done this against Maldonado for sure.

Gael · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:07 pm

Man, some inter-team drama in that race. I really don't like the whole concept of team orders. I know it's a part of F1, but why can't the team orders just be "race hard but don't wreck each other."

StanV · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:08 pm

Vassago wrote:

Mattzel89 wrote:

I'm just quoting this because this is the best post I've seen so far regarding the entire discussion. Sums up how I feel about the entire situation tbh

Schumifan wrote:

If this was the other way round I can guarantee 99% of people on here would be going HA FUCK VETTEL GO WEBBER LOLOL 10/10. Fact is, it's moves like this that put drivers like Vettel a cut above the rest. It's that killer instinct that Mark hasn't got, which means Vettel has 3 WDCs and he has 0. Yeah he'll have to go and do some explaining to the team but he's put himself in a position where he can get away with it and he'll be the one walking away with multiple more WDCs.

And I'd far rather see drivers actually trying to win then just settling for team orders. Who wants to watch that?

Obviously Vettel fans see only the positivies. And it's true that Vettel's success has created hate around him, the finger and all that. He's not the people's champion like Schumacher never was too. People tend to cheer for the underdogs and Webber is the underdog here. Whatever Vettel fans think it's obvious they will stand by him right 'til the bitter end and never admit he's done something wrong. Vettel is a class above Webber without this race and already has multiple WDC so I don't see any point about mentioning that here. I only can guess that the comments saying that Alonso is the best driver in F1 now cause Vettel's fans to lose their patience.

Be that as it may, it still doesn't change the fact that in a reversed situation, the majority of the people would be cheering on Webber because he ignored the "unfair teamorders" and would certainly call Vettel an idiot/crybaby for reacting the way Webber did. I don't necessarily fully agree with what Vettel did here, especially due to the lead-up, but I really hate hypocrisy. If you're against teamorders, you should be happy to see Sebastian did that.

If you'd just say: "I don't like what happened because I prefer to see Webber win over Vettel" instead of the disobeying the team, not honouring his contract, being a bad employee or w/e, that would make a whole lot more sense.

a7b7u · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:14 pm

Mattzel89 wrote:

I'm just quoting this because this is the best post I've seen so far regarding the entire discussion. Sums up how I feel about the entire situation tbh

Schumifan wrote:

If this was the other way round I can guarantee 99% of people on here would be going HA FUCK VETTEL GO WEBBER LOLOL 10/10. Fact is, it's moves like this that put drivers like Vettel a cut above the rest. It's that killer instinct that Mark hasn't got, which means Vettel has 3 WDCs and he has 0. Yeah he'll have to go and do some explaining to the team but he's put himself in a position where he can get away with it and he'll be the one walking away with multiple more WDCs.

And I'd far rather see drivers actually trying to win then just settling for team orders. Who wants to watch that?

Sorry but this argumentation is too simplistic, really.

1. Not informing his own team, that he intents to not obey to given orders and then catching and overtaking driver who is not even racing anymore at 100% has nothing to do with killer instinct. That's just sneaking and dishonest. Also it is disloyal towards a team without whose performance he would not have been this successful.

2. If it would have been the other way around we would all bash Webber now. Something like, he can not beat Vettel in terms of speed, now he has to use dirty tricks.
Only if Webber would have rejected the team order immediately after it has been given, so that the racing situation would have been 100% clear for both drivers, at least I would say "Well done Mark".

Sadly the only true aspect is, that Vettel will get away with it and all it cost him was one apologies. Nevertheless Vettel put himself in a very prominent line of F1 drivers such as Didier Prioni or Michael Schumacher whose unsportsmanlike behavior at some point in their career should not be glamorized as smartness or killer instinct.

Fabs · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:15 pm

Vettel is badass.

That is all.

Vassago · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:29 pm

StanV wrote:

Be that as it may, it still doesn't change the fact that in a reversed situation, the majority of the people would be cheering on Webber because he ignored the "unfair teamorders" and would certainly call Vettel an idiot/crybaby for reacting the way Webber did. I don't necessarily fully agree with what Vettel did here, especially due to the lead-up, but I really hate hypocrisy. If you're against teamorders, you should be happy to see Sebastian did that.

If you'd just say: "I don't like what happened because I prefer to see Webber win over Vettel" instead of the disobeying the team, not honouring his contract, being a bad employee or w/e, that would make a whole lot more sense.

Of course they would be cheering for Webber because cheering for the underdogs is a long-time part of any sport. And I'm no Webber fan so it's not like I'm cheering for him personally because I'm not. I wasn't a Barrichello fan either but was cheering for him against Schumacher yet I was the first one to kick him out of my personal fav team when he joined Williams way past his prime. I'd be cheering for any underdog teammate at Red Bull be it Vergne or van der Garde. I don't think you follow my logic.

kals · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:36 pm

I'm fine with how Vettel treated the orders, afterall Webber hasn't exactly been a shining example of how to treat team instructions in the past. You reap what you sow. Plus Vettel gave us extra excitement by doing what he did.

EAS · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:27 pm

I don't like to judge team orders as something good or bad. It's part of the game, teams want to maximize their results and that's a logical decision to make. If someone wants to take the risks of having teammate battles on track, that's great, that's good for racing, but not the most wise decision possible.

What I really don't buy this time is the talk of Vettel being the 'sportsmanship guy' of the day. Once again, he asked the team to swap positions with Webber earlier in the race and later went against the team orders, seizing Webber's slower pace, due to that same orders, to take the win.

This isn't much different of all the moaning from Alonso whenever he gets stuck behind Massa.

StanV · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:46 pm

EAS wrote:

What I really don't buy this time is the talk of Vettel being the 'sportsmanship guy' of the day.

That one goes to Lewis, for looking genuinely awkward and shit at what happened to Rosberg.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:52 pm

so what's the best thing to ban team orders, make constructors championship like in the beggining?

good old days when the best placed driver scored points for constructors

EAS · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:55 pm

Ban team principals. They don't rely on their drivers.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:59 pm

plus the fact that is least likely to happen injuried from crashes, drivers should be encouraged to always push. I must say not like Grosjean first lap frenzy, but is ok if you feel confident and fast

kals · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:00 pm

Just ban the idea that team orders are a negative thing.

EAS · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:31 pm

Btw, other thing I don't get is this "team orders [so early] in the second race, that's so bad."

The order this time wasn't in favor of the best driver who was already leading his teammate in the championship table. It was more to the other way round.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:31 pm

StanV wrote:

Be that as it may, it still doesn't change the fact that in a reversed situation, the majority of the people would be cheering on Webber because he ignored the "unfair teamorders" and would certainly call Vettel an idiot/crybaby for reacting the way Webber did. I don't necessarily fully agree with what Vettel did here, especially due to the lead-up, but I really hate hypocrisy. If you're against teamorders, you should be happy to see Sebastian did that.

If you'd just say: "I don't like what happened because I prefer to see Webber win over Vettel" instead of the disobeying the team, not honouring his contract, being a bad employee or w/e, that would make a whole lot more sense.

I would do that and I'm no hypocrit!!!!

I'm just tired of seing Webber being unfairly held up so many times, specially 2010, that if anyone in F1 right now, Webber it's by far the person who should do that to his teammate for once. It will be a justice fullfilling moment.

Vettel, who's already had a lot of perks from team order is now disrespecting one, in the early season, when RBR finally tried to give something back to Webber when it was a perfect moment for that. I will never aprove this move coming out of Vettel and I would aprove it coming out of Webber 100% of the times.

aerogi · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 pm

Great battle for the lead today!

but I'm hugely dissappointed afterwards to learn:
1) there were strict team orders not to race eachoter, with loads of laps to go, and only 2nd race of the season. That was chicken-chicken attitude from Red Bull.
2) a driver not listening to its team. A team that has given him 3 world championships, a team to which he owes so so so much. That was a huge dissappointment from a human perspective. So f*cking selfish. And could really bring a bad atmosphere in the team.

A pity, I really thought at the moment it was a great duel/fight for the win.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:56 pm

thought the main idea of F1 racing was to see the fastest car and fastest driver to win the race

too bad strategies and team work are spoiling this concept

EAS · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:03 pm

aerogi wrote:

1) there were strict team orders not to race eachoter, with loads of laps to go, and only 2nd race of the season. That was chicken-chicken attitude from Red Bull.

As I said before: team orders had more to do with keeping the results of this race than with the effects on the championship. The guy ahead in the points (and who is also the best driver) was asked to stay behind in the race. It's the kind of order that is perfectly suitable for a race at the early stages of the season.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:03 pm

Yeah, you had thought wrong. F1 is a TEAM sport

in the wrong sense of the word....

I enjoy it more because I already acepted this fact long time ago.

EAS · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:05 pm

LucasWheldon wrote:

thought the main idea of F1 racing was to see the fastest car and fastest driver to win the race

No.

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2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

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