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Porsche is coming back to LMP1, looks like it'll happen again

first time was with the 917 and then with the 956/962

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now

So assuming that no Concorde agreement gets finalized and signed, some teams fail to pay their entry fee (as a by-product) and no official calendar is released by the start of season, then what happens next to F1 2013?

Is there a force-majure for a sitaution like this? Do races become non-championship until everything is resolved?

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

The shit hits the fan, that's what.

If no Concorde Agreement is signed, it's between the FIA and Bernie. The teams and Bernie have an agreement, it's just down to the FIA and the technical regulations at the moment.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Are you sure it's as simple as that? I thought the issue was more around the concorde agreement, the teams and Bernie as well as Bernie and the race promoters. Until those elements are resolved the FIA cannot complete their parts.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Bernie *claims* he has an agreement with the teams, although I struggle to see Marussia satisfied (if I was putting 2+2 together I'd suggest that's why Glock's gone).

I guess it's a lot of small detail, but the fact there's 7 weeks to go and there's no official championship isn't great!

I think also with the races, there's a few out there that are struggling. Someone, somewhere, has to cut costs...

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Bernie *claims* many things, but there's little truth behind them. Very soon there will be a major event which will trigger a big change in F1's management and structure. It could be the result of the current state of affairs not be resolved, it could be Bernie being found guilty of the multiple accusations of fraud, blackmail and bribery that went with the sale of F1 to CVC, it could be Bernie being forced to stand down from the head of FOM and the various holding companies. Which ever one it is, the one common denominator with most of these are that they fall in 2013.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Indeed. 2013's going to be political.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I get the feeling the off-track activities will be far more entertaining that whatever happens on-track.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

It's been rumbling on for a while. Everyone forgot about it in 2012 because of the quality of the racing, but it'll come to a head at some point.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I don't think people have forgotten, I just don't think people realise the seriousness of the situation as it stands.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Following your conversation is going to make me a sceptic. Very good points, no Concorde, one team gone, two in jeopardy (Marussia, Force India), no official calendar...etc.

Maybe F1 2013 is going to be a turn point. Maybe 2014 will something that we never expected.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

And while Bernie can easily expand the calendar because there's more countries willing to throw money at F1, in the long-term it isn't sustainable. Eventually - and it might be 10 or 15 years down the line - circuits are going to have to cut costs meaning that race fees will lower, lowering the income of the teams etc etc.

You can see it already: Germany's buggered - and that's even with Schumacher, Vettel on the grid - Korea too. Turkey's gone. Valencia's gone. Spa's just about surviving. How much longer will Albert Park survive? That might seem overly negative, but in the last few years there's been such phenomenal calendar expansion that it isn't sustainable. I was reading Autocourse from 2004 yesterday and an article was talking about Bahrain + China joining, commenting how there's been two new races for the first time in ages. Two purpose built tracks - before then, there'd been 4 purpose built tracks joining across a 25-30 year period. Since 2004 we've had Bahrain, Shanghai, Istanbul Park (gone), Valencia (gone), Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Korea, India, Austin, with NJ + Sochi to come in 2014. That's a massive expanse.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Bernie seems to be the only person that hasn't fully recognized that constant expansion and profitability isn't sustainable. But then again the race promoters keep agreeing terms which are bad for them but good for him. So they are also at fault.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Oh he knows it, but it's making him money, so why bother? And yes. The fee agreed with Korea was just laughably expensive for what they got in return. The thing is there will come a point where no other countries will be able to afford holding a race. We hear it all the time that country X wants a race, but frequently they can't afford it. How many more countries can actually be added to a calendar before we run out of countries that can afford it!

There's also rumours that Ecclestone met with Horner, Whitmarsh, Brawn and Domenicali at Maranello last week regarding the Concorde Agreement. Then suddenly today, Bernie says F1 doesn't need one...

From what I can gather from Dieter Rencken's article, the top 4 get good treatment - which seems to be what pissed Mercedes off because they don't count as a historic team - with the next 6 getting progressively less money. Marussia get nothing.

Another interesting point is this: "On Wednesday a meeting of all sporting directors was called in a Heathrow hotel to discuss unresolved matters carried over from last year. In the absence of an official Sporting Working Group, the meeting referred to itself as the Sporting Working Committee… but now has no F1 Commission to refer its recommendations/decisions to"

The problem comes from the monumental fuck up which was the budget cap. No way was £40m going to be feasible, but equally, the current proposal which I believe is £155m is just comical. But how can a cap happen? Red Bull has a point in that all of their £155m will be used on the F1 cars. McLaren's £155m would be used on the F1 cars, plus they have a road car department which might happen to overlap... It worries me that if one or two more teams go under, what next? Caterham, Marussia and HRT arrived on the pretence of a budget cap. HRT's set-up was always a massive cock-up because a racing team in Spain in a recession was doomed, but the other two teams have stagnated. 2014 is the hope, but other teams coming in would look at Caterham/Marussia and HRT and go 'you know what, no thanks'.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I don't know in which of the 2 sources mentioned that you got that 830HP from. I heard from people who work at Ferrari that their V8 in 2006(the highest revs) peaked 785HP at the end of the year.

About the current ones, most people I saw/read, rather on tv and etc, who are close to engineers within the teams, says that the "word on the street" is that current engines range around 730-760HP and that is pretty consistent with what they peaked with higher revs.

But that is all irrelevant, I'm very glad that, with ERS, the power units will have quite more power than the V8 generation that we have had since 2006

thanks for the info.

It's not the first time there is variety in claims of engine powers, and this is actually perfectly expected as they are not officially stated by engines makers since 80's or whatever

Der Speigel says that talks with the Nurburgring have ended and that F1 will not be going there in 2013. It's up to Hockenheim. Unless it's a bluff from Bernie, which is entirely feasible.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

while the lay-out of the Nurburgring (post 2002) is definitely not one of my favourites, I still prefer it over post 2002 Hockenheim.

I suggest a Belgian grand prix at Spa and a German grand prix at Spa as well (reverse of course).

Lotus unveils their new car today at 19:15 GMT. Should be streamed here: http://www.youtube.com/lotusf1team
The livery might have some more red according to Kimis suit in the interview on that link...

the rear wing is red (unfortunately)

last year's overall featured a few red patches as well. I wouldn't expect anything dramatic of the colour scheme at all.

I do like the fact that he seems to be sporting the colours of the Belgian flag