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Alonso looked into his mirrors and veered from right side of the track all the way to the left and slammed the door for Kimi, who was already on the grass. What ever happened to his "everytime you must leave a space" -policy? That was completely Alonso's own fault and cost him the title. B-Senna how ever came out from nowhere, divebombed and crashed in to Vettel. There was enough space on the inside of Vettel, but B-Senna was carrying too much speed to ever make that corner clean. Had Vettel been one meter more off the apex, Bruno would still have hit him.





That's bullshit, Bruno made a mistake in braking. How come it's Vettel's fault? He's well ahead of Bruno, there's Perez and Räikkönen between the two, the track is damp, it's the first lap, Vettel is leaving enough room on the inside and he's having a more natural racing line. If Vettel had not been on that spot, Bruno would have went over the outside curb and lost the position he gained from Perez.


Look at the video/animation SkySports made about it.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8282398/

Although McNish is blaming Vettel, watch the line at 1:13 that Hulkenberg is taking, two wheels on the inside curb. At 1:14 Bruno has about 50cm on his inside to the curb and he's already hit Vettel well before the apex. Senna would never have made the corner with that line and with that speed.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

How about you watch the lines of two cars... firstly the Ferrari just ahead of Vettel, then secondly the Force India just behind Vettel. Both maintain a similar line through the turn, which is middle'ish of the circuit. They barely deviate from that line, which means they are being mindful of other people on the circuit around them. Vettel doesn't do that. He goes from the very outside to the very inside, he attempts to take the normal racing line.

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It seems we haven't to expect more mistakes from Senna in F1. Thank god!

It was Vettel's own fault indeed, he was already hesitant on the brakes into that corner. Raikkonen had to take avoiding action to not hit Vettel in the rear. After that incident he had nothing to loose and drove a lot better. Same as in Abu Dhabi, after his 2 incidents at the start he then recovered.

How about you check the speed difference between everyone else and B-Senna? He's way too fast and way too inside to ever make it through the corner at that speed without going wide. Of course he didn't want to hit anyone and ruin his own last race, but at that moment he has no way to avoid impact, no matter if Vettel is two more meters further from the apex or not, Bruno is always going to hit him with that line and with that speed. Mistake was made by Senna and during the braking. He ruined his own race, he ruined Perez's race and nearly Vettel's race too. As simple as that.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

I'd say that's 75% Vettel tbh. The remaining 25% being Senna was in his exact blind spot. He wouldn't see him. But he should know someone will probably be there. And maybe Senna could've been on the inside more.

Vettel has no way to see Senna charging on, while Bruno has already made his mistake by making the apex much tighter to himself than it's for Perez and he's carrying more speed than Vettel and Perez at the time. I would call it 50% on Senna being too anxious and 50% on 1st lap racing incident on damp track. Vettel had no idea that Senna was closing in that fast. And when Bruno is jumping on Perez and Vettel that late, it's more B-Senna's fault than it's Vettel's.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

Unsurprisingly I did take into account Bruno's speed, which seems fair and reasonable for the corner. Despite being a little off the inside curbs he's turning into the corner and not running wide.

How about you also take into consideration this, which has a direct impact upon what you're saying looks like Bruno taking too much speed into the corner...



Vettel is tentative into the corner, Raikkonen has to take evasive action, Di Resta backs out early also, Bruno takes the inside line with a little extra speed. Without the collision Bruno would have easily made the corner.

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I don't think taking the normal racing line in the middle of the pack at the very first lap is the most wise thing to do. You have to be very sure there is no one attempting to attack.

Now, now come down. Vettel was at fault, for the reasons already gone into. Sadly this is the internet forum and we shall never agree that it was Vettel's fault. Which it was.

I actually don't think Raikkonen needed to do that. As DC said, short lap, you don't get much heat in the brakes here, expect locks up, and Kimi did. Vettel didn't brake that early, the gap to Kimi was quite large, and Kimi still locked up. I think Kimi was just caught out by cold brakes there.

It's not only the internet forum. I wouldn't agree with you on this even if we were in pub and you were buying the next few rounds.

I just don't see how it's Vettel's fault if he's more than two car lengths ahead of Senna in the braking zone and Bruno has collected Vettel even before the apex. It was not clear thinking from a driver who was doing his last race in front of his home crowd. Vettel was being cautious, not seeing Bruno while Bruno was probably more concentrated on Perez. Had Bruno been more calculative, he had made two spots in that corner and maybe got by Vettel before the sixth corner braking.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

If Vettel was being as cautious as you're suggesting, then he wouldn't have attempted to go from the very outside to the very inside of a corner with so many cars around him.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Exactly.

What about 5 rounds?

Funny really that Vettel was only really cautious because Mark decided to block him into T1 (which let both Ferraris through). Same happened later, when Mark decided 3 wide was a good idea with his team mate. What a bizarre race. I wonder how close they were to Helmut Marko trying to sack Mark, lol.

I was thinking the same ellis. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the pit-wall during the race, hearing the radio conversations and Markko's comments. It's terribly ironic that after all the bad starts Webber has made throughout the year, he has a great one in Brazil but ultimately almost helps to ruin his team-mate's title aspirations.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Okay...this one made me laugh

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This would be the standings if we had the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1-system

1 Sebastian Vettel 115
2 Fernando Alonso 114
3 Kimi Raikkonen 82
4 Jenson Button 76
5 Lewis Hamilton 74
6 Mark Webber 71
7 Felipe Massa 47
8 Romain Grosjean 37
9 Nico Rosberg 36
10 Sergio Perez 26
11 Kamui Kobayashi 21
12 Nico Hulkenberg 21
13 Michael Schumacher 17
14 Pastor Maldonado 16
15 Paul di Resta 15
16 Bruno Senna 8
17 Jean-Eric Vergne 4

And with the 10-6-4-3-2-1
1 Sebastian Vettel 91
2 Fernando Alonso 86
3 Lewis Hamilton 59
4 Jenson Button 59
5 Kimi Raikkonen 51
6 Mark Webber 49
7 Felipe Massa 26
8 Nico Rosberg 22
9 Romain Grosjean 19
10 Sergio Perez 17
11 Pastor Maldonado 12
12 Kamui Kobayashi 11
13 Nico Hulkenberg 8
14 Michael Schumacher 5
15 Paul di Resta 4
16 Bruno Senna 1

Not sure if this has been shared anywhere else in the forum, but it deserves to be placed here as well. A must see video:

another thing i'll never understand: we all ( but one ) agree it was Vettel's fault. Then why the incident has not been investigated? Why no action has been taken against vettel? We've seen so many dumb penalties all over the years for all kind of slight contact ( most of wich i'll simply consider racing accident not to be penalized ). Then why we have a crash involving three cars, putting two of them out of the race and not even a reprimend has been given?

let me explain: i dont want vettel to be penalized and i think he did amazing in brazil to keep it togheter in that mess. But i simply cant stand the lack of consistency in Fia's decision and penalty sistem.