TBK-Light.com

Thanks for the info, did some reading on it after you posted this. Here's some info for people that are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lega_Nord

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for the lewis hamilton thing i'm 100% sure that if he next year comes to ferrari and wins in Monza, he will be treated like a hero. It's not the color of his skin that caused the booeing, is the color of his car.

[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAjuXFsW98A[/youtubeidiot]

Looking this, I don't even think Sebastian realised Fernando was there.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Grosjean used that excuse...

I know, I'm not justifying it. I think that Sebastian was surprised by Fernando being there!

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Vettel knows perfectly that Alonso's there, because that's not a normal racing line and because he glanced in his mirror at the 0:31 mark.

You're right, he does glance in the mirror.

Alonso was moving very quickly to the left for a place that wasn't there really. Vettel had seen him coming on the inside but not the outisde. Given the corner is a long one to the right, and Alonso moves left with already almost no room to spare, I fail to see how Vettel deserved the penalty.

Well if the space wasn't there, how come he managed to fit his car alongside Vettel?

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

The new rule is basically what Alonso said in Bahrain
[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sMZG0MLcc[/youtubeidiot]

Vettel did not leave a space!

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

And Vettel was aware of that rule .

[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcc0Nxq7itk[/youtubeidiot]

you hit the nail right in the head here

Since I first saw the incident live, I never doubted that Vettel deserved a penalty. The rules are different this year and that's how it is. The, once again, frustrating thing is the double standards, as DiResta would be quickly penalised, by me, too.

Also, I don't agree with whoever claimed that 2011 was even worse. It wasn't. Alonso left slightly more space eventhough it would also be punished under current rules

...not the normal racing line? Since when was that not the normal racing line? It has been since...well, forever.






In 2012 you could argue that Vettel went to block but the closing speed was too significant. In 2011 Vettel was alongside for a lot longer (a good half of the corner), and Alonso ran him off the road. That is FAR worse than trying to block a car. Ok different rules, fair enough, but di Restas move was far worse, and Jenons yellow flag ignorance should've carried a much harsher penalty than a drive through, and he got nothing.

The gap Alonso was driving into was always going to close, whether Vettel was blocking or just taking the racing line, and THAT is the problem I have. He drove into a gap he KNEW was going to close, and the closing speed allowed it to look much dirtier than it actually was. He ran into a door then cried when he hurt himself. And the door was deemed to be at fault. Drivers will now have to predict the future and hope nobody is stupid enough to drive into a gaps which won't exist by the time they get there.

From all the videos and images I've seen of the 2011 incident ellis, Alonso did not push Vettel on to the grass rather Vettel chose to go there. Alonso pushed him as far to the edge of the track as possible but there was always still just enough room to run the cars side by side.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

@

ellis, I am referring of how to exit the corner. In my opinion, if you would 'delete' Alonso on the videos, that would definitately not be the exit that they normally do like Vettel did. They are closer to the white line.

Agreed with both this and the closing speed point. Perhaps a good way of putting it is a "usable car width". You have to be able to fit a car in in driving conditions, not the exact width of a car.

I find it funny, but fascinating, how a few fractions of a second can provoke heated discussions lasting for days or even weeks.

I agree with that.

I also believe part of the problem nowadays (Christ, I sound like 90 not 19 there) is that a lot of these drivers now are getting used to very wide, new tracks - the likes of Shanghai, Sakhir, Sepang, Yeongam, Yas Marina, Istanbul Park - where there's a fair amount of space to move around.

Suddenly, tracks such as Monza become the minority rather than the majority in that they're actually quite narrow. So every turn of the steering wheel when defending becomes exaggerated comparatively to the track width.

I'd also argue that you need to clamp down on it in GP2 and GP3 as well to stop the trend from continuing. Bahrain was just a joke at times. Guys driving each other off the road and using the sand as a racing line!

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

And some races (or tracks) are so boring they're forgotten forever..*cough* Hungary.

But that's what provokes the most discussion here, it's not a pre-meditated evil plan of the drivers, its a split second reaction to extreme pressure that even they might regret 10 seconds after it has happened.

We'll never know what was in the drivers heads at any particular moment and only the height of fanboyism of one driver vs another will post with certainty that they "knew he was thinking about running x driver off the road" "it was an accident, not deliberate" etc