TBK-Light.com

I tend to say 50/50. Hamilton made a similar maneuver on Senna earlier on and they didn't collide. Ok, HAM was the overtaker, so that's a little different, but he wasn't able to leave as much room to Pastor as he did with Senna. I'll post pics soon. Gimme time to grab them

-------------------------

-----------------------------

-----------------------------

50/50, two typically overaggressive drivers took each other out.

_________________
Gael

Fighting for a podium with the (then) championship leader, Maldonado should have anticipated Lewis' firm tactics and used his head. But he didn't.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

My opinion is that it was Hamilton's fault.

why?

We had quite some overtaking at that spot, compared to all the other overtakings, Maldonado seemed to be even more in front of the driver he was overtaking. So it is a bit of a mystery that this one didn't work out, while many other overtakings at that spot did work out. Yes Maldonado was off track, but Lewis seemed to push him off track.

And besides, concidering the state of his tyres, Maldonado was all over the place, in that lap, he should have been more wise, and let Maldonado pass him, that was the most sensible thing to do.

I could agree with 50/50 too though.

I don't see how it was Hamilton's fault if we are going by the rule book. Pastor came from outside the track. We saw numerous times of cars being pushed wide by the driver on the racing line. None decided to re-enter the track through the side of another car.

In terms of keep their cool - both failed. But that's not necessarily Hamilton's fault as you generally expect drivers to drive to the rules. If you are in the run off area of the corner you should not be considered a threat unless your car is out of control.

I'm amazed that Kamui got a grid place penalty but Maldonado gets a drive through. That makes no sense to me. This would have been a great chance to get Maldonado to be fully accountable for his horrible driving standards in heated moments. But they've missed it and I expect to see him taking out someone else and placing the blame on them in the future. Let's hope it's not a high speed straight with tragic consequences.

On an side note - was it ever confirmed or denied whether Pastor's deliberate contact to the Sauber in Monaco was the cause of the crash in Qualifying at high speeds?

if it is Pastor's mistake, then I wonder why some overtakings actually worked, because if every driver would do what Lewis did, i.e. pushing your opponent outside the track, then we would have none overtaking at that spot. And what Lewis did looked rather simple and easy to do.

Hamiltons move was aggressive but it was legal. All Maldonado had to do was hit the brakes and rejoin behind like the other two drivers who he did the exact same thing to during the race did for him. I really don't see how he can blame anyone else but himself and the fact he has made a habit of silly things like this doesn't help his case.

It was a 50/50, and throws up the depressing fact that squeezing someone off the circuit when they're pretty much alongside (as Maldonado clearly was, well into the apex of the corner) is deemed 'fair play' nowadays. It isn't. Would it have seemed fair if there had been grass instead of tarmac where the runoff was? Or a wall? Lewis could still have given Maldonado more room. It wasn't as if Pastor was well behind into the corner.

Obviously, Maldonado then should have engaged his brain and not just flounced back onto the circuit right where Hamilton had put his car, so that bit was his fault. But hey, Lewis has learned before that - particularly when driving against Maldonado - he can't afford to just assume the other car won't try to him what he tries on them.

So yeah, 50/50.

Seem to recall everyone saying Kimi/Lewis did the right thing at Spa in 2008.

Why is it different this time?

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

the fact that there is such discussion about this proves there is enough doubt in the responsibility of either driver.

Racing incident.

The one thing that irritates me is the apparently blindness of the driver to see the other point of view. I know they are racing drivers, but Maldonado keeps bullshitting us (and thinking we're retarded) by NEVER taking the blame for his silly actions. I'm not just talking about here by the way, but it was another case. He's blindingly quick, but erratic. If anything, his win in Spain was a curse & a blessing - to him, it justified that his driving style is fine because he won. In reality, he's cost his team probably around 30 points this season, if not more, by being a total tool in four of the eight events already. And he's only into year two of a five year deal (unless PDVSA find another Venezuelan driver), so someone could do with a word with him.

After the race he said this:
"We were struggling at the beginning of the race but at the end I passed Lewis (Hamilton) and then he came back across. I jumped across the kerb but there was nothing I could do and we made contact."

Point One: He had not passed Lewis
Point Two: Lewis came back across - fair point
Point Three: He could have taken to the run-off or backed off. It was avoidable.

And if Pastor wants to cry foul at someone defending aggressively, that's laughable. He forced Raikkonen wide at Turn 17 on Lap 2.

The current generation seem to have forgotten that you can defend your position and that DRS + fresher tyres doesn't automatically guarantee your a free pass. You're seeing it further down the pecking order as well (not DRS obviously, but poor driving). I had a brief Twitter conversation with Tio Ellinas after the GP3 race and he was livid at being given a time penalty for forcing Ceccon out of the way. He kept using the famous Senna, 'if you no longer go for a gap, you no longer a racing driver' quote on me. So is this what the current generation think? "Either you move or we crash"?

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

This, a thousand times this. I don't know when squeezing someone became synonymous with driving them off the road, but I really don't like how that seems to be accepted as the standard move nowadays. Why is it ok for Lewis to drive Maldonado clean off the road, when everyone goes on a witch-hunt after Schumacher for squeezing Barrichello into the wall at Hungary (and actually leaving him enough room to complete the move without contact)? Speed has nothing to do with it - it's exactly the same principle. Everyone complains when drivers use tarmac run-off as a get out of jail free card, and then everyone complains when drivers actually attempt to stay on the track.

As far as I'm aware, drivers are meant to leave enough room for another driver when they're beside them. Maldonado was alongside Lewis. Lewis didn't leave him any room. Why is this legal?

It was a 50/50 incident. Neither driver would give an inch of space and they got what was coming to them. Simple as that.

and as for off-road racing. See Massa vs. Kubica in Fuji 2007 for a lesson of hard but fair racing.

Would agree with the 'move off or we'll crash' scenario. Not only did Maldonado do it to Kimi, he did it to Webber too.





I'd agree about the double standards though. Pastor did the overly aggressive move twice in the race, yet when he was the victim of it, he didn't take the blame. I just think he has no race craft full stop.

How do we define the rules? Leaving space on the inside/outside - think of Rosberg's defending in Bahrain. It's so complex and almost "undefinable"

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

What ive been saying since it occurred. Complete double standards from Maldonado in this race considering what he did to both KR and MW. Both of those guys gave it up and fell in behind, he simply failed to do the same. Whether or not it's within the spirit of the sport is another thing, but if it isn't against the rules and you can gain an advantage from doing so than you would be stupid not to try tbh.

That's different though. Both Hamilton and Alonso were still behind Rosberg when he moved to the edge of the track. It was Hamilton's decision to stay on the throttle and go around Rosberg off the track.

But isn't that what Pastor decided to do? Off track and still on the throttle? That's the problem in defining it.

Also with penalising drivers, I just hate the inconsistency. I know Vergne & Kobayashi failed to finish, hence they got a grid drop. But they screwed themselves with bad driving and get it taken into the next event. Maldonado did the same but lost one point - big deal when he's already cost Williams 30, if not more, huh? Can head to Silverstone with a clean slate.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

No, because Pastor was forced off the road by Hamilton. Hamilton wasn't forced off by Rosberg, it was entirely his decision.

As far as I'm concerned, if a car is alongside you, you should leave room for it. You wouldn't get a driver going full speed into the back of someone else and then saying "well he should have got out of my way if he didn't want a crash". So why is it ok force other guys off around corners?

I think it's all part of having racing intelligence though. Lewis braked a little too late and made the corner. Pastor could quite easily have braked earlier and nailed Lewis on the exit of T13. Lewis's tyres were shot, there was no way he could hang on to 3rd but there's no reason why he should give it up - I think Pastor assumed he could just drive past him.

I'm still calling it as Pastor's fault, but Lewis isn't entirely innocent.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

That's why I'm saying it's 50/50 - neither of them showed racing intelligence. Hamilton should have known that he was always going to lose that position and that he was up against probably one of the most crash-happy drivers on the grid, so if he'd have defended less obtusely he would have finished the race and picked up some points. On the flipside, Maldonado should have known he was always going to get that position, so he should have been more patient and just waited until the next corner.

However, what with Hamilton being Hamilton and Maldonado being Maldonado, neither of them gave each other an inch and unsurprisingly fucked both of their races.