The 2012 Indianapolis 500-Mile Race and the Month of May

Woodski · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:57 am

ellis wrote:

That speaks more than any market research. It was the same formula, even has the same Dallara chassis. The formula can, and does work. But they've messed with it too much. I thought the new car would solve it but it hasn't. If IndyCar produced racing like this now, we'd all love it.

thats absolutely terrifying to watch.

in full bodied stockcars it's one thing, but not open wheelers.

Ospi · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:37 am

Terrifyingly awesome!!!! Do want.

Gabriel · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:51 am

I think the 2000-2002 formula had the best racing in the IRL. I'd love to have some of that back in the ovals.

Juihi · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:56 am

Shane · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:18 am

Woodski wrote:

ellis wrote:

That speaks more than any market research. It was the same formula, even has the same Dallara chassis. The formula can, and does work. But they've messed with it too much. I thought the new car would solve it but it hasn't. If IndyCar produced racing like this now, we'd all love it.

thats absolutely terrifying to watch.

in full bodied stockcars it's one thing, but not open wheelers.

Stock cars have never raced like that at Chicagoland.

ellis · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:27 am

electrodevo wrote:

No, it's "exciting" by the fact that is an artificially constrained closeness. The low horsepower lacks high tech appeal; the pack racing does not showcase a lot of driving and team skill, other than avoiding contact and some skill in drafting, maybe. I think you're overestimating the appeal of how close finishes attract people to racing. I liked the Hanford CART races too, but they really didn't draw well in the end, either. The NASCAR crowd likes the restrictor plate stuff, but I'm not sure the Indy crowd is into the same sort of stuff. The banter on the Internet, for better or for worse, seems to not like the pack racing.

The dislike from pack racing comes from the current IndyCar issue of the cars stalling side by side and the cars tendencies to take off, not the fact they are in a pack. The old car (and apparently the current car) have taken the formula to such an extreme that as soon as the cars get alongside each other, they stall there and nobody can pass. Chicagoland 2007 was a good example. Dario was faster but as soon as he got alongside Dixon they couldn't go anywhere. Only Dixon running out of fuel created the pass.

This video doesn't have this problem, and cars are able to pass as easy as a Handford race. Providing every race was not the same (and this could be solved by introducing lower banked ovals, or 1 milers) then it is a brilliant formula. It'd also rely on the cars not flying through the air in the event of contact - something IndyCar has struggled with for a long time now.

Wil Vincent · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 am

electrodevo wrote:

StefMeister wrote:

Something you can look at is that Texas & Chicagoland which were the 2 tracks that featured the most pack racing & several of the closest finishes were the 2 best attended oval's outside of Indy.

Er, what? The first couple years were ok, but Chicagoland attendance dropped like a *stone*, and TV ratings were very dismal, from what I remember. Put it this way: Chicagoland is gone. Texas, granted, has always had very good attendance.

With them looking to bring Watkins Glen back, and owners of Auto Club, I wouldn't be suprised if we see Homestead or Chicagoland any time soon...

Just saw an Indy 500 Ad on Sky Sports... Can't believe it's 5 days! (To go, not since I saw an advert on Sky)

Ian-S · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:11 am

They're probably waiting to see if the new car kills anybody before making decisions, although reading between the lines, Homestead and Chicagoland are tightly run SMI tracks, whereas Watkins Glen & Fontana are owned by SMI, but are run on a lot looser leash.

RtN · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:15 am

Shane wrote:

RtN wrote:

We've been over the supply restraints earlier in the thread, but is Wiggins even trying to link up with Chevy or Honda once they have enough engines?

Honda and Chevrolet is almost at capacity, if they had engines Shank would be on the grid.

Yeah, but once they have made more engines, is Wiggins doing anything to link up with one of them?

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:09 pm

ellis wrote:

That speaks more than any market research. It was the same formula, even has the same Dallara chassis. The formula can, and does work. But they've messed with it too much. I thought the new car would solve it but it hasn't. If IndyCar produced racing like this now, we'd all love it.

That season didn't end that happily though, remember.

We have yet not seen any oval race with the DW12, so it isn't really necessary to jump to conclusions just yet. As long as they don't run in packs, and yet they can pass each other, it can be called an improvement from the last Dallara. No one is reinventing the wheel here.

StefMeister · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:24 pm

RtN wrote:

Shane wrote:

RtN wrote:

We've been over the supply restraints earlier in the thread, but is Wiggins even trying to link up with Chevy or Honda once they have enough engines?

Honda and Chevrolet is almost at capacity, if they had engines Shank would be on the grid.

Yeah, but once they have made more engines, is Wiggins doing anything to link up with one of them?

Havn't seen anything suggesting there looking at switching.

DW41183 · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:29 pm

Ian-S wrote:

They're probably waiting to see if the new car kills anybody before making decisions, although reading between the lines, Homestead and Chicagoland are tightly run SMI tracks, whereas Watkins Glen & Fontana are owned by SMI, but are run on a lot looser leash.

They're actually ISC -NASCAR- owned tracks. SMI are all the ".... motor speedway" Ie Texas, New Hampshire, Bristol, Charlotte. I wouldn't say chicagoland is tightly run either. Daytona, yes for sure because that's NASCAR's home track. They also own Michigan, it'd be nice to see that come back to the schedule.

electrodevo · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:22 pm

ellis wrote:

The dislike from pack racing comes from the current IndyCar issue of the cars stalling side by side and the cars tendencies to take off, not the fact they are in a pack.

The greater the chance of wheel to wheel contact, the greater the chance of taking off. Pack racing will involve more take offs in oval wheel cars in general.

I reiterate: Whatever you *personally* think, the attendance and ratings really speak otherwise. IRL / Indycar has had over a decade to sell its general oval formula to the fans. It has failed.

From what I can Google, the last Chicagoland track's attendance was 12K. I think Homestead was pulling similar numbers in the end. For comparison, courses like Barber Motorsports pulls 80K attendance these days.

I don't see Homestead or Chicagoland in the future, to be honest. If you see another oval in the future, you may see a more "Indy tradition" flat oval like Phoenix or Pocono. But the Milwaukee Mile's attendance last year was pathetic. You can't predict the future by looking at the past all the time.

Texas has been the only oval I can think of where IRL's formula has sold well, consistently. Iowa also sells decently for its track size, its a relatively small track with only 25K permanent seats though.

Elsewhere (excluding Indy which runs on its own merits, and has been mostly in decline for a decade), the sales are predictable: decent attendance numbers for the street circuits and road courses in general; pathetic attendance for ovals; and bad TV ratings overall. This pattern has been in place for a *decade* now.

However exciting you might think the pack racing may be, it clearly did not set the world in fire. There may be many reasons for this that have nothing to do with the racing formula itself, sure (a lot of this was how the split and the bad blood killed open wheel in general)... but if you look at the general pattern of IRL / Indycar over the last one decade, how can one conclude that we need *more* pack racing, not less?

Ian-S · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:55 pm

DW41183 wrote:

Ian-S wrote:

They're probably waiting to see if the new car kills anybody before making decisions, although reading between the lines, Homestead and Chicagoland are tightly run SMI tracks, whereas Watkins Glen & Fontana are owned by SMI, but are run on a lot looser leash.

They're actually ISC -NASCAR- owned tracks. SMI are all the ".... motor speedway" Ie Texas, New Hampshire, Bristol, Charlotte. I wouldn't say chicagoland is tightly run either. Daytona, yes for sure because that's NASCAR's home track. They also own Michigan, it'd be nice to see that come back to the schedule.

LOL yeah, I always get those two muddled up.

Indycar's problem is they leave the race promotion to the tracks, so places owned by ICS, are not going to put a major effort into promoting a rival series event. WG & Fontana differ because they only have one Cup event each year, and for the other 51 weekends the tracks are used for club racing.

Woodski · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:48 pm

Shane wrote:

Woodski wrote:

ellis wrote:

That speaks more than any market research. It was the same formula, even has the same Dallara chassis. The formula can, and does work. But they've messed with it too much. I thought the new car would solve it but it hasn't. If IndyCar produced racing like this now, we'd all love it.

thats absolutely terrifying to watch.

in full bodied stockcars it's one thing, but not open wheelers.

Stock cars have never raced like that at Chicagoland.

stockcars in general.

Woodski · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:54 pm

http://www.weather.com/news/weather-for ... t-20120522

EIB Fan · PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:06 pm

Woodski wrote:

http://www.weather.com/news/weather-forecast/indy500-record-hottest-20120522

Damn! I was stupid and let myself get overcome by heat at the USGP 2006, but this has to be way worse.

Sent from my Full Android on Supersonic using Tapatalk 2

Chris D · PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:21 am

Got to Indy today, this week looks to be a fun one with all the new people we have going this year.

sennadesillva · PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:34 am

man i was outa town the last 5 days with no internet :/ missed alot. glad to see that over all the car is pretty safe (debate about parts flying and it getting on its side aside) servia had pretty good contact with the pit wall and walked away just fine. weather its an improvement over the last car can be debated but i think we can safely say that so far it isnt worse

tickyour · PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:01 am

EIB Fan wrote:

Woodski wrote:

http://www.weather.com/news/weather-forecast/indy500-record-hottest-20120522

Damn! I was stupid and let myself get overcome by heat at the USGP 2006, but this has to be way worse.

I was there too in 2006 and it was a scorcher! But this is setting up to be something else, most likely the hottest 500 ever! I'm kinda glad to enjoy this one on TV with A/C

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The 2012 Indianapolis 500-Mile Race and the Month of May

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