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No and Webber.

Most of the time it was Vettel that was crashed out on lap one, not the other way around as it has been with Grosjean. But you got a good point there, I give you that. The problem for me is that Grosjean seems to be more erratic, his crashes seems like he's there from a random online racing league. Vettel was not under a radar in 2008 because of his crashes, but because of him beating Bourdais by a country mile.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

Even when Vettel had already established himself among the 'elite' he got involved in some avoidable crashes. It was not so annoying like Grosjean this year, but he got himself messed up sometimes.I do believe there is room for Romain to improve his awareness of potential incidents and become a more reliable driver.

My fanboy side hopes he gets kicked in favor of Koba though.

Someone says to me that BBC is going to broadcast all races live again in 2013? Is that true?

Haven't read or heard about it.

The BBC covered all races live this year, it's just that half were live on radio.

Oh, shit. Thx.

anyway Schumy lost 97,98 and 99 championship wich could have easily won before he got his 5 years streak, it could happen even to nando

The caption said all race on the BBC, which on twitter turns into all races live.

1st: No. Give Kovalainen the seat!

2nd: Massa. I've always thought Webber was terrible.

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"Many people ask me why I always sign off Till We Meet Again, because goodbye is always so final. Goodbye Dan Wheldon." -Marty Reid

I would take Webber over Massa any day. Actually Webber and Massa in the same team would be interesting.

I'd take Massa. Fuck having to put up with the frail ego of Aussie Whinge.

Webber probably hasn't still gotten over Abu Dhabi 2010 with Sebastian coming from behind and claiming the title, and probably never will...

I like Mark and for a while this year it looked like it was finally his time on top, but then he signed his new contract and went AWOL

I don't understand either why he's allowed to make such crappy starts race after race and he's allowed to get away with it.
Any other driver would've had the team having serious words with him and threatening him with being dropped unless he sorted it.

With Webber, red bull just sorta shrug their shoulders and continue focusing on Vettel's race, almost as if they're happy for the excuse to have Webber not challenging too much...
Well, I don't want to get too bogged down in conspiracy theories, what I'm trying to say is Mark is so lucky his team is forgiving for his constant tardy starts yet I'm amazed he hasn't locked himself in a simulator trying to cure himself of that problem.

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

You honestly believe he's been doing nothing to improve his starts? His starts in the last 2 gp's have been great anyway, hopefully he's figured out whatever it was which was giving him grief.

1st: The guy is talented, deserves it for sure. It was his first full season in F1, having Kimi as teammate, that half of the F1 fans think is the new incarnation of jesus, he gave him a fair fight for almost the year. He was faster than Kimi on qualis and did a pretty good first half of the season taking 2 podiums and could have won in Valencia when a lot of people was still saying he was pretty good. Then it came Spa where I think the crash was overrated, in my point of view he made worse mistakes than that, but because he took two title contenders in a crash that could have given Alonso some bad injuries people start looking at the mistakes as a whole. After Spa it was a mental thing, he was good in quali but started to think too much in the races that took a downgrade in his performances and also kept having first lap problems. He looked like a striker that keeps hiting the iron. In a moment everyone forgot Maldonado and just focused on Grosjean.
I believe he needs a fresh start, one more chance, not to do better just to do what he was doing in the first half of the season, but without the rookie mistakes. Problem is, I think he is good but not great, mentally he looks kinda weak, what happened at the second half can't happen at the highest level if he wants to succeed. Also I don't know how it was on lower formulas but I think he looks pretty bad on rainy conditions, he was awful in Brazil and Sepang on slippery conditions.

2nd: Massa was much better after Belgium but before that he just looked a waste of a seat. Alonso monopolises Ferrari and Massa is the true example of a nº2 driver, can someone do a better job than him? Better than what Felipe did in the second half I don't think so. But he needs to be more consistent and if Fernando is having a bad weekend he needs to step up. Webber on the other hand looks to be great when the team is not at the top and gets some good wins but when the car is dominating it's all about Vettel and Mark go backwards.
So in other words, Massa is the best second driver for Ferrari and Webber the best for RB.

Wouldn't HRT close their factory and officially stop today? Still didn't hear anything about that, maybe they found some investors or something ?

That's funny, seeing as how Webber and Massa have both had one chance at winning the title. Felipe was inch perfect on his final weekend whilst Webber wasn't.

Anyway, the question was about who is the best 'second driver', and the answer to that is Felipe. Miles better than Webber in terms of supporting his team-mate.

As far as HRT is concerned, Ma's sponsors might be about to buy and run it as a joint Sino-Spanish entity.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

The question was: 'who is the best second driver for a team' . And that's Webber. Like Scotty pointed out, way more poles, points, wins, podium etc. Best second driver as teammate is Massa. The stuff he did at the end of the season will Webber never do.

I agree that Webber has simply put up the numbers and helped bring in the trophies for RBR and thats why they're sticking with him, even if he isn't much of a team player.

By the way what do you mean he "has been 10x closer to winning the drivers championship than Massa ever has"? Massa was champion for around 20 seconds. How long has Webber been WDC for?

Alright guys, my 24-hour ban is over. Would like to apologize everyone for the excess of fanboyism and a little of trolling too. Actually, I blame the emotions aroused from Motorsports (it's a huge passion) and that race was absolutely breathtaking. You guys know what I'm talking about (with the exception of some people I wouldn't like to name).

In one of my posts I said Vettel didn't deserve the title, something like that (it was just plain joke after all), actually I congratulate Vettel for a highly deserved Triple World title, not only him but also Red Bull who's done a superb job. That was a season to be remembered for sure!