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were you born before or after SPA 1991? (MSC F1 Debut)
Before 86%  86%  [ 190 ]
After 14%  14%  [ 30 ]
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:46 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Woodski wrote:
whats so ridiculous about imola's first turn?


A kink and a concrete wall. It's not that safe.


Valencia? Monaco? Singapore?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:49 pm 
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If they put proper barriers or a SAFER barrier or (tech-pro?) it might be okay. But as it is, there's just a wall. It's not a great design.

And it's only got a 1T rating I think.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:49 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Also, I wonder what fans want. Lots of people seem to go ZOMG Barcelona is shit, ZOMG Valencia sux, Silverstone is crap, Hungaboring. And then go 'WE NEED MORE EUROPEAN RACES!!!!1111'. Yeah, ok.

A lot of European races are struggling because the majority are funded privately and sponsors are hard to come by. A lot of the Asian countries see F1 as a way of promoting the country and governments are willing to throw money at the sport. In 10 or 15 years time, that situation might be a whole lot different and the calendar might become more European again. Who knows.



I don't want to be rude, but for me it's a bit on double standards side, when you forgot to mention how people hate races at Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, and Korea. To be honest, F1 has circuits that are awful for the show, while there's dozens of tracks around the world where they SHOULD go, if you ask the public. Who wouldn't love to see F1 cars going around (current versions of) Bathurst, Road America or Nordschleiffe? Or who wouldn't love to hear the names like Fuji, Imola, Indianapolis or Le Mans when the talk is about F1.

Then there's the races that are the untouchables on the calendar, the likes of Melbourne, Monaco, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Suzuka and Interlagos. Then add the reality F1 only has 20-odd races per season and there's oh so many useless, boring venues in the calendar that no racing fans can love no matter how hard they might try. We get around one nice race at Valencia or Hungary every ten years, so there would be no tears if those two would be dropped. Then there's the middle-east races that no one likes and has no racing culture or pedigree (looking at you Bahrain and Abu Dhabi).

So all in all, F1 calendars sucks in general and there's only a few highlights for racing fans. But then again would Spa be so awesome if it wouldn't be right after Hungary? Of course it would, but that's the excuse we've used for nearly 30 years.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:51 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
If they put proper barriers or a SAFER barrier or (tech-pro?) it might be okay. But as it is, there's just a wall. It's not a great design.

And it's only got a 1T rating I think.

Monaco has a Grade 1 rating.

Your comments regarding track safey are invalid.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:54 pm 
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I agree with some of that...

But "no racing pedigree" is an issue. F1 can help create a racing pedigree in a country, but it can also hinder it as countries go straight to F1 without establishing any other form of racing. What does Japan have apart from F1? Several series and major races. Korea? Er...

I wrote an article earlier about the USA, but the point that Khalil Beschir made about the Middle East kind of talks about what you mentioned
http://www.f1zone.net/news/is-good-cove ... ica/15949/

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Woodski wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
If they put proper barriers or a SAFER barrier or (tech-pro?) it might be okay. But as it is, there's just a wall. It's not a great design.

And it's only got a 1T rating I think.

Monaco has a Grade 1 rating.

Your comments regarding track safey are invalid.


Why do you insist on mentioning Monaco? Everyone knows it's unsafe, but part of F1's unique rules means it's still a legal track to race on.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Woodski wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
If they put proper barriers or a SAFER barrier or (tech-pro?) it might be okay. But as it is, there's just a wall. It's not a great design.

And it's only got a 1T rating I think.

Monaco has a Grade 1 rating.

Your comments regarding track safey are invalid.


"I don't care about the technical and safety regulations, so your comments are invalid"


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Woodski wrote:
That and if they're being pussies about it, there's that shit chicane on the outside of the straightaway.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:00 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Woodski wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
If they put proper barriers or a SAFER barrier or (tech-pro?) it might be okay. But as it is, there's just a wall. It's not a great design.

And it's only got a 1T rating I think.

Monaco has a Grade 1 rating.

Your comments regarding track safey are invalid.


Why do you insist on mentioning Monaco? Everyone knows it's unsafe, but part of F1's unique rules means it's still a legal track to race on.

...because the fact they still race at Monaco means that any track is safe for them to run on. The cars are clearly safe enough to run there, so they can run anywhere.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Okay, not just Turn One, but a lot of Imola is unsafe. There's been massive crashes in the past there. As Kals said, there was the big crash in the Porsches. Earlier this year, Joan Lascorz was paralysed after an accident.

Imola is one of those circuits that, for whatever reason, seems to open itself up to large crashes with dire consequences.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Monaco is a pioneer in marshall training and safety features. It knows what it's doing.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:10 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Earlier this year, Joan Lascorz was paralysed after an accident.

that happened during WSBK tests. you can't compare motorcycle accidents with car accidents


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:12 pm 
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NVirkkula wrote:

I don't want to be rude, but for me it's a bit on double standards side, when you forgot to mention how people hate races at Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, and Korea. To be honest, F1 has circuits that are awful for the show, while there's dozens of tracks around the world where they SHOULD go, if you ask the public. Who wouldn't love to see F1 cars going around (current versions of) Bathurst, Road America or Nordschleiffe? Or who wouldn't love to hear the names like Fuji, Imola, Indianapolis or Le Mans when the talk is about F1.


me, sorry mate.

Le Sarthe is a great circuit but the others are crap. Well, Fuji is not that crap but Suzuka is infinitely better. I always hated Imola's layout so I'm glad it's out and I hope it never returns to F1, as well as Indianapolis and it's horrible mickey mouse internal layout.

Many people hate the Korean track but I loved it since first sight. It's a pitty it's destined to have same ending as Turkey, another one of the few great new circuits.

On the other hand, the absolute terrible race tracks that are Bahrain(which isn't great even at night in a WEC race :p ) and Abu Dabhi are not leaving the calendar any time soon.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:18 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
France isn't on the calendar because
- Magny Cours and Paul Ricard can't agree
- The Socialist government won't fund it

The promoters tried one last time earlier this week, but their proposals were rejected by the sports minister. They used too much public money (indirectly, by involving the racetracks regions) and any losses would have had to be bailed out by state money.

The former government had also failed to fund a comeback depsite the repeated efforts of a motorsport-enthusiast prime minister (François Fillon). Given the current climate here with the crisis and the sport's general loss of popularity, it's very unlikely to come back soon, if ever.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Racing is about danger and excitement. What's more better to see who has the biggest balls in the field and excells above the rest? At this moment I feel F1 isn't as dangerous as football and drivers are starting to be pussies about safety (hello Fernando). The charisma of motorsports is the fact something COULD go wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Woodski wrote:
...because the fact they still race at Monaco means that any track is safe for them to run on. The cars are clearly safe enough to run there, so they can run anywhere.


Any track with an average speed of 90mph.

It's all irrelevant. The FIA's rulebook says that only tracks with a Grade 1 license can go on the F1 calendar. Whether it merits one or not, Monaco does have a Grade 1 license, and so it can go on the calendar. Imola does not have a Grade 1 license, and so it can't go on the calendar.

There are very few Grade 1 tracks that aren't on the F1 calendar, and most of those have been on the calendar at some time in the past 10 years.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Artur Craft wrote:
NVirkkula wrote:

I don't want to be rude, but for me it's a bit on double standards side, when you forgot to mention how people hate races at Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, and Korea. To be honest, F1 has circuits that are awful for the show, while there's dozens of tracks around the world where they SHOULD go, if you ask the public. Who wouldn't love to see F1 cars going around (current versions of) Bathurst, Road America or Nordschleiffe? Or who wouldn't love to hear the names like Fuji, Imola, Indianapolis or Le Mans when the talk is about F1.


me, sorry mate.

Le Sarthe is a great circuit but the others are crap. Well, Fuji is not that crap but Suzuka is infinitely better. I always hated Imola's layout so I'm glad it's out and I hope it never returns to F1, as well as Indianapolis and it's horrible mickey mouse internal layout.

Many people hate the Korean track but I loved it since first sight. It's a pitty it's destined to have same ending as Turkey, another one of the few great new circuits.

On the other hand, the absolute terrible race tracks that are Bahrain(which isn't great even at night in a WEC race :p ) and Abu Dabhi are not leaving the calendar any time soon.



My point with those tracks mentioned was that it's nice to hear those names. I don't like the post-94 Imola layout, or modern Fuji, but those are the places every racing fan knows.


phil1993 wrote:
But "no racing pedigree" is an issue. F1 can help create a racing pedigree in a country, but it can also hinder it as countries go straight to F1 without establishing any other form of racing. What does Japan have apart from F1? Several series and major races. Korea? Er...



Everyone should start from the grass roots when they want to go play in the major leagues. Finland is known for fast drivers, but we don't have our own F1 race due to its costs. If we would have it someday, 100.000 - 300.000 people would show up, like we do for our WRC event. Then there's countries like Turkey who can buy their F1 project and only 3000 people will show up. F1 is not the sports that should be used to build the pedigree for the sports in general. It's like sending an NHL team to crush everyone in Brittish hockey league. Not only would it make your own efforts look pathetic, but it might turn against yourself with your agenda to help others to enjoy the sports that you find awesome and worthy.

And to be honest, there's a HUGE difference between South Korea and Japan in racing and car industry. While Korea is taking it's baby steps in both categories, Japan has been heavily involved in both since the 60's. That's a long build racing pedigree and Japan has already proved its place in the world of automotive technology and racing.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Yeah it's probably becoming oversanatised, but so is the world we live in.

People forget the serious questions people were asking about the sport in 1994. If we had such a similar run of death and serious injury today we'd be lucky to keep the sport going at all let alone moan about what changes they'd be forced to make in the wake of it.

We all want to see side by side battles through Eau Rouge as it was in the 1980s/1990s or the cars race at Bathurst, Le Mans or the Nurburgring because it appeals to our racing spirit, but sadly the world has moved on and those places need to be left as fond memories and find some way to move on from.

In 2012 the sport has finally worked out a Formula that means even previous shit tracks but on fantastic races so aside from the ugly stepped noses there's not much to moan about, boring racing wise. Even Valencia put on a great race!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:33 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Hungaboring.

Haha, I liked that one phil :p


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:48 am 
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kals wrote:
Woodski wrote:
whats so ridiculous about imola's first turn?




J.Morelli wrote:
Looking at the 2013 calendar again, it's very disappointing...F1's calendars keep going down low year after year:

- No return of a French Grand Prix;
- Two GPs at a country where the guarantees of success are not completely proven (USA);
- No return of an Austrian Grand Prix (even after Zeltweg being reformed by Red Bull).
- No Imola back, even after local facilities being reformed and modernized.
- South-Korean GP still on, even after so many problems regarding their organization and low popularity.
- Perspectives are worse for 2014, when it's believed another asian country joins the calendar (Thailand), transforming F1 in a definetly Asian series, at the best of "Gangnam Style".
- Thus it will be remaining only a Bangladesh GP, with Tuk-Tuk races as preliminary event.


Seriously now, are you on drugs?


Yes, I was under the effects of "racing tradition pills" I've taken in the morning.


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