TBK-Light.com

Maybe I am biased, but I'd put Hamilton in the top 20 already based on what he's acheived. Maybe it's an ignorance and perhaps just the outlines of what was acheived pre-1980 or so that can be gathered that lead me to this conclusion, but low-teens seems about right. There's two titleless drivers that you could argue would get in my top 20, looking at the list of 1-time WDC's and there's not many that I'd stick ahead of Hamilton (possibly 3 at the most) and with the 15 multiple champions also in there, yes I'd stick him at low to mid teens.

The way I see it is that you have 31 world champions. They are therefore added to the 'best ever' list. Then you have to look for the ones that never won a title, such as Gilles Villeneuve. Eventually you end up with about 50. I'd have Lewis and Seb on the fringes of the top 20, with Fernando in my top 10 and Kimi in the top 20.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

The way I'd do it though it might cause problems around 20/30/50/100 or whatever title you give them is just put them in groups without actually stating what order they come in, because once you get past the very top level, say that top 10, the differences become very small.

I have Hamilton and Vettel just inside my top 20, yours just outside. You have Raikkonen just inside, I'd have him just outside, but ultimately they'd only be minor differences.

I think it's hard to rate any driver that is still active. Anyway, I remember making a list a while back over the driver's I thought were best. Only got 14 names on it now...

Juan-Manuel Fangio
Stirling Moss
Jim Clark
Ayrton Senna
Alain Prost

Jackie Stewart
Niki Lauda
Emerson Fittipaldi
Mika Häkkinen
Michael Schumacher

Mario Andretti
Keke Rosberg
Nigel Mansell
Nelson Piquet

Can't really remember why I put them in this particular order though, but it's accurate enough. I mean, Graham Hill should deffo be somewhere around Mario, considering his success in sportscars and his Indy 500 win, but was he really better than Rosberg? Stuff like that should considered, which makes this hard, and kinda pointless.

He had the second best car last year and Jenson beat him

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/scarsurfing?feature=mhee

I don't have a huge problem with Lewis being (so) high up - I think he's shown enough brilliance in his career so far that you know he's a great driver - but, I think this rating is based on his driving ability and potential to be an all-time great, although much of that potential still needs to be fulfilled in terms of results, there's little to argue about what he's capable of - but then that case can (and has) be(en) made for Gilles Villeneuve ...

I'd want to give Vettel a few more seasons before slotting him in to the 20 greatest of all time ... but is his car advantage any greater than some that Schumacher enjoyed en route to records?

I definitely see Alonso belonging up there, especially if he can bag another title or two before the end of his career to really cement what he's been doing with inferior equipment in recent years ... it would be a shame if he goes out with only the two Renault titles ...

Too early to judge as he's still racing and who knows what will come of his new career at Lotus, but for me Kimi isn't in the Top 20 - somewhere around 20-30 ... his early career was stunning, and he didn't get the success he deserved between 2002-2006 with McLaren/Mercedes either building a fast but fragile car, or a slightly slow one, and the title at Ferrari was the very least he deserved, but what happened after still leaves a few questions. I think he's on the way to re-asserting himself at the moment though ...

They're both astonishingly talented. I've read a lot that Kimi is the driver who, over the course of history, has left teams astounded with his pure pace. Ferrari said they couldn't believe what he was doing with the F60 in the second half of 2009. That said, I think Lewis was born in the wrong era. Put him in the Ferrari during the late 90s/early 00s and he would have multiple titles. Even so, he is still one of the best racers post-2009, he just had a wretched period from pretty much Monza 2010 onwards.

It's so hard to compare even year by year. Seb Vettel was a class act in 2011. But not so much in 2010. Maybe we should open a specific thread and each try and have our own top 20? It'd be difficult but interesting to see everyone's opinion.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Talking of Hamilton. Apparently McLaren is about to offer him a new contract worth 20m pound/25m euro a year. Deal is until 2017

I like Kimi now that he isn't driving for the red bastards.

And for saying things like this.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99647

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Lotus confirms chief exec Dany Bahar suspended.

Hahahaha

"As a result of a number of media inquiries, Group Lotus plc (“Lotus”) can today confirm that, following an operational review, chief executive Dany Bahar has been temporarily suspended from his role to facilitate an investigation into a complaint about his conduct made by Lotus’ penultimate parent company, DRB-HICOM Berhad."

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Bye bye Bahar. Hopefully lotus can be saved now

I have little problem with Hamilton being in a Top 20, it's a little bit of stretch atm but fine, but then where do you rank Vettel and Alonso whose achievements are better in both cases? I certainly wouldn't yet rank Lewis above Jack Brabham and Nelson Piquet Snr who is criminally underrated primarily due to him being a insufferable so and so during the course of his career and since then. Piquet won 3 World Titles and him and Mansell managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 1986 on top of that.

I definitely think Alonso has an argument for Top 10 all time. The only double champion I rank above him is Jim Clark, whose generally considered to be in the Top 5/6 all time anyway but then where do you place Stewart or Brabham e.t.c.

Ranking the drivers is difficult but Lewis over Piquet Snr and Brabham is silly at this stage. Especially given Lewis' regression from his fantastic rookie season. It's only now we are seeing the sort of driving form and consistency from him that Vettels being reeling off for 18 months or so now and Alonso's been delivering in substandard cars since late 2008.

I also rank Raikkonen behind Lewis atm. Kimi's awesome but he spent 18 months getting beaten comfortably by Felipe goddamn Massa.

I'd agree with a lot of that. People get too lost in statistics; Fernando Alonso's number of victories is astonishing given he's spent most of his recent career - when he's been strongest - in a sub-standard car.

Sauber hits out at Red Bull
http://www.f1zone.net/news/sauber-slams ... ing/14163/

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I think a lot of people expected a more mature Hamilton after 2009's struggles - and he was very good that year, and I don't think the McLaren was the car to have when he won two races at the back end of the season - and if memory I think 2010 was going well, he was pretty consistent and right in the title hunt (and the McLaren wasn't the Red Bull) until Spa (which he won) before going off the rails at Monza and Singapore - and last season was something of a right off, albeit with a couple of good victories that any driver would be proud of ... and a gift in Abu Dhabi.

He's only now starting to turn the corner again, whereas you're right, Vettel has been remarkably mature and consistent certainly since title #1, and you can probably add the run in to the end of 2010 as well - post Spa where I think he slewed into the side of Button ...

Alonso's just been a class act since 2007 ... the two victories in 2008 (Piquet assisted in one case) proved what we saw in Malaysia, that if he gets a whiff of a win, it's going to take a lot to stop him. The 2009 Renault was as awful as it looked but what he's done at Ferrari is amazing - nearly took (which would have been an appropriate word) the title in 2010, and on it all last year ... all in probably the third best car ... and this year's isn't even that but he's joint-leader of the championship after five races.

This year, more than most - because it would be a total fallacy to say that other years haven't rewarded consistency - is going to be all about consistency, and if Lewis wants to win (and re-establish his reputation as a great driver, rather than 'just' a fast one) then he'll have to keep going with the attitude and driving he's shown so far ... Vettel's definitely in this for the long haul too, and if Ferrari can get that car on the pace it needs to be, who knows what Alonso will do - his consistent (and even strong) early points scoring could be telling because he's relentless over the course of a season.

Alonso is a lousy cheat and a whiner.

_________________
"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

ya

Alonso's the best driver in F1 currently

24 races starting from 2014 season, is it real?
10 years ago it was 16

damn 24 races seems a bit to much for the teams imo

keeps most of the european races safe.