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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:47 pm 
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There are unfortunately angles where it is possible to climb over another car and not just in open wheel racing. We've seen plenty of car climbs in NASCAR and even in the wrong conditions the COT can take off.

They have always got to continue working on safety and I hope the research into an alternative to catch fencing that TG ordered back then is still going on.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Location: let them make on all nascar tracks roofs,there u go, make roof like on a house and they can race
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After watching it again I still cant believe how Pippa Mann escaped this but I´m very happy that she did!


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:04 pm 
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ShaneC wrote:
Also a lot of things went terribly wrong in that crash, it was IMO still a highly unfortunate outcome. I mean in order to have Wheldon skitting along the catchfence a lot of things happened in a chain of unfortunate events, such as Pippa Man rocketing through the air and hitting Wheldon at excactly the right place in order to launch his car into the fence etc.


Yeah. If Wheldon hits at any other angle then we have 15 drivers walking away (some badly bruised of course), the race carries on, and we're all amazed by what we saw.

I guess with all the cars getting into the fence it was only a matter of time before one went in the wrong way. Just one race away from a new car that could potentially solve the pack racing issue, and maybe not fly so much. It's hard to take.

Looking at the height Will got, I'm not surprised he had back pains. That was simply insane.

I also said in the MSN chat, about 2 minutes before it happened, that I could see someone ending up on their roof. I feel awful for saying it.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Location: let them make on all nascar tracks roofs,there u go, make roof like on a house and they can race
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Thats just insane 8O


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:20 pm 
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with the race being red-flagged after 12 laps, I wonder when the first dickhead tries to sue the organizers for a refund.

Surely, they'll leak his name and homeaddress so someone can bring that one some common sense


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Wish they would actually get people who know something about Indycar racing to do these news reports.

On Sky most of its just comparing it to F1 which you can't really do.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:31 pm 
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The solution is very simple:

TAKE AWAY DOWNFORCE, GIVE MORE HORSEPOWER.

This accident would not have happened if the cars were more spread out due to lower downforce.

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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:31 pm 
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in all the tragedy we should be happy as well that all the other 14 drivers are fine and that there weren't any spectators or marshalls.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:36 pm 
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StefMeister wrote:
On Sky most of its just comparing it to F1 which you can't really do.


Indeed. They came up with pointless stats to show that the average Indycar circuit is shorter than F1 (well hello, there are ovals), and that Indy has more cars on the grid.
Also that F1 has more fewer retirements from crashes. Could it be that the cars are more spread out and the crappy new circuits have nothing to hit? Let's have 5 miles of tarmac run off on the ovals then. Oh, wait...


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:42 pm 
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A few comments on this whole painful and disturbing event. In no particular order because I still am having a hard time getting my thoughts straight. I do not know why, but this accident and subsequent tragedy has produced more of an effect than prior accidents.

First of all, RIP Dan. You were perhaps the only driver in the field each May who regarded Indy as the biggest race in the world, and you always told us so. Your driving on the track commanded the respect of even the best who have ever graced the Brickyard. Your presence will be sorely missed.

Like many of us, this is not the first time I've witnessed such a catastropic crash. The last time I felt this way was 1999 when I unfortunately watched my favorite driver die on live TV. Unlike yesterday, when Greg crashed it was all too evident that it was not survivable. With Dans accident, there was hope for a brief time as initially it appeared that the car had held up well. Sadly, that was not the case.

Anyone who was watching and saw Davey Hamilton's interview knew that Dan was gone. Davey answered questions perhaps the most honestly. He will, more than likely, not return to the seat of an Indycar. He will look at himself and his shattered feet and feel lucky he cheated death as long as he did. As for many of the drivers, they are professionals and will grieve, then go back to do the job. However, for a few, I would question their desire to continue. Dario has nothing left to prove. Take you 2 Indy 500's, your 4 titles and go home to your wife Ashley. Tony Kanaan is only missing Indy in his trophy case. However the possible cost, even with the new, theoretically safer car, may be too high a price to pay. It's time to hang up the gloves from Indycar for these two. Helio has 3 500 wins. He has the team and ability for 4 or 5. At what point does he decide that maybe he can live with being a 3-time winner? I imagine he will ponder that in the offseason. I would say the same for Scott Dixon. He has won it all and there is nothing left to prove. He too will consider carefully over the winter as I'm sure many others will.

Now, many would say that's folly. They're drivers, they know the risks and they'll be back. This is true, however look at yesterdays crash in the borader picture. 3 cars flipped, 4 drivers went to the hospital with one passing away. The magnitude of the crash and the results that came from it must force the drivers to look beyond the usual bravado a racecar driver needs to have. Of course it's dangerous, but there's a measured quantity of danger to it. What we saw yesterday is the type of wreck that the current standard of big oval Indycar racing can breed. If Indycar does not change the way they conduct the races on the big tracks then the drivers have to consider that. It's easy to lay blame and hindsight is 20/20. If you looked at Randy Bernards eyes during the press conference you could see a man who, at the moment, was lost. The ramafications of a crash of this size and scope will be deep.

As for the fencing issue. Look back at CART. Outside of Jeff Krosnoff's crash in '96 and end of the Indy 500 that same year, how many times did one of those cars get into the catch fencing? How many times did those cars get airborne? A lot fewer times, that's for sure. Why? Because they were often not bunched on top of one another. The catch fences are there for two reasons. 1) To protect the fans. 2) To keep the cars inside the track. The issue lies not so much with the fence as it does with the cars/racing. They, Indycar, must change their aero packages to separate the cars, thus greatly limiting the danger of such a crash repeating itself. They simply cannot afford to continue racing in this manner. Look at the accident again. Power and Wheldon both went airborne after hitting the back of the car in front nearly dead on, not wheel to wheel. Bumpers and bullshit will not limit this. With all that said, researching and implementing something to get rid of the fencing should definately be high on the priority list.

Finally... RIP Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:43 pm 
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NVirkkula summed it perfectly.

Hopefully we will see some safer racing next year. But god this feels awfull rightnow.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Over here in Poland, IndyCar has gotten the biggest exposure ever after Wheldon's death. Normally they only talk about the series once a year in sports news telling who won Indy 500. But now they mentioned it several times on global daily news and had brief interviews with Ganassi, Franchitti and Kanaan shown too. He was called "IndyCar's megastar" and one of the best drivers in history of the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:03 pm 
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As many already stated, the surroundings leading to this event makes it ever so dubious. It was the final race meant as a occasion to celebrate, last race with the chassis, those who saw the pre race chat with him, Wheldon history along with the whole prize pot deal. All deaths are sad but I can't help to feel empty and grim at the same time. That's what comes to mind.

I can find no glimpse of light in what happened. In the end he did what he loved, if I could choose I would like to leave this world that way too. Obviously not premature and not ever leaving two kids and wife behind.


Last edited by Caspar on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Vassago wrote:
Over here in Poland, IndyCar has gotten the biggest exposure ever after Wheldon's death. Normally they only talk about the series once a year in sports news telling who won Indy 500. But now they mentioned it several times on global daily news and had brief interviews with Ganassi, Franchitti and Kanaan shown too. He was called "IndyCar's megastar" and one of the best drivers in history of the series.


I guess here in europe, where people dont even know about indycar series on general tv programs it's all shown in the "look what a spectacular crash has happened overseas and oh yeah, by the way there's an unknown driver killed in it" mood just as a pretext to show the images of the crash as many time they can.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Remember this. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Watching the crash live as it happens, was obviously extremely shocking. I know there have been wrecks slightly similar to this in the past, but I've never witnessed one on live television before in this series. It was extremely shocking to say the least. The cars more like unguided missles when they leave the ground. It's hard to even think about, but it could have been any of those drivers. Dan was just the unlucky one.

Although I had watched nearly the entire broadcast, as gut wrenching as it was to see al the drivers and crew as they recieved the news, it was Marty Reid's final sentiment as the braodcast closed that choked me up the most.

Rest in Peace, Dan Wheldon. You will be forever missed.

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Last edited by K_Sherman on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:33 pm 
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My first initial reactions were actually disbelief, followed by anger. This should not have been allowed to happen.

Historically Indycars have almost only raced on flat ovals. It is only since the IRL appeared that there's been races on these kind of circuits. They are built for stock cars. Drive either at 1-milers, like Milwaukee and New Hampshire, or at 2+ miles, like Michigian, Pocono and Indy. The only 1,5-miler that continually used was Trenton! Why haven't they learned from their history?


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:55 pm 
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dicksplash wrote:
My first initial reactions were actually disbelief, followed by anger. This should not have been allowed to happen.

Historically Indycars have almost only raced on flat ovals. It is only since the IRL appeared that there's been races on these kind of circuits. They are built for stock cars. Drive either at 1-milers, like Milwaukee and New Hampshire, or at 2+ miles, like Michigian, Pocono and Indy. The only 1,5-miler that continually used was Trenton! Why haven't they learned from their history?


Same thing could happen anywhere, it happened at a flat 1.3 miler some years ago (Nashville) and everybody walked away, and Suzuka years before that (F3000), fast cars on tracks lined by cheese grater fencing is a ticking time bomb, it almost happened at Fontana a few years ago (had Dario's car been tipped towards the outside fencing rather than the infield etc. etc.) and it will happen again at some point in the future, you can blame the circuit and promoters all you want but in reality that kind of crash could have happened at any of the tracks they race on.


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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:00 pm 
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So what kind of fencing would you suggest they use instead?

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 Post subject: Re: Indycar @ Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:03 pm 
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mew wrote:
NVirkkula summed it perfectly.

Hopefully we will see some safer racing next year. But god this feels awfull rightnow.



Thank you. I just felt that I had nothing to say but then I suddenly found some words to describe how I feel right now.


I don't like that much of the speculating and what if's that has been thrown in the air, but then again I have some opinions at the same time. I'm not saying I have something on this, but I feel like sharing my thoughts is what makes me go through this hard time. It's only the second time I witnessed a fatal crash, the other being the great Ayrton Senna.

Like said before, this track and this car didn't match on the paper and here's the end result. It was probably the shortest major racing event ever, which makes it even more sad. How many minutes did the race last? I guess it was something around 7 minutes, as the lap takes less than 30seconds and they did around 10 laps. Indycar drivers are some hot heads, which is odd as the sports is more dangerous than NASCAR, where drivers took their time to build up their races. Here it was +200mph and flat out from the start. Then the inevitable chain reaction started. The race had covered 12 laps from 200, that's just barely over 6% of full distance. Faith didn't took it's time when the control was given upon it.

What a tragedy this is, when you know all the hype around the event and Wheldon. From highest high to lowest low in just few minutes, or a blink of an eye really. That could have been said about Wheldon's year also. From out of nowhere, he came and won the 500 in May, starting low from the field with a car that didn't quite have the edge in qualifying. Just like at Vegas. I believed on Wheldon's chances that he would be the high roller that would come from the back of the grid and have another underdog story to give to us, the motorsports community.

High stakes means high risks, that he probably took, when he saw cars spinning in front of him. I don't feel comfortable at all when I say this, but for a moment, did he put his focus on the victory and not lifting up, enough for being on the safe side on the scene? It was a big mess in front of him that we saw building up from his point of view. I heard him lifting, but I think the guys in front of him checked up much harder than what Dan did. Either that or he was focusing on what was happening around him rather than in front of him. Kimball and others were spinning out of control behind the initial contact while trying to pull down to low lane. Did Wheldon just ran out of the room or did he ran out of his luck when playing this russian roulette? Did he think that he could gain few more spots and have better spot after the green would come back out? He for sure wanted to win this race, with or without the bet money. He had lot to prove as he was having a good run this year for 2012 seat. Think about it for a while. He was the man developing the new car. He might have been big next year, I for one believed on it. But it was all taken away way too soon in a way to grotesque way. Wheldon was the high roller, that would have make the impossible possible at Vegas. He didn't give us the underdog story yesterday, he did that in May. Now he gave us the tragic tale of a racer who was chasing down his dreams and was taken from us in a cruel manner.

The first live broadcast Indycar race that I ever saw, was 2003 Indy 500. The only bit I remember from that race is Dan Wheldon flipping wildly between T3 and T4. He walked away on that day.

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