DTM 2023

Gauthier · PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:12 am

They're confirmed? i thought Hand and Werner are busy with ALMS after all.

Tommy Vercetti · PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:23 am

Nope. Hand decided to try DTM in 2012.

Mattzel89 · PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:52 pm

please let this happen

Quote:

Should the planned regulations merger go through, it could open up for Super GT manufacturers Nissan, Lexus and Honda to take part in the DTM

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7091

and Joey Hand has been confirmed for 2012

Fish88 · PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Wow Joey Hand really got a great career boost after last year. Daytona 24H, Sebring and ALMS winner. Awesome to see him getting this chance.

deggis · PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:18 am

Mattzel89 wrote:

please let this happen

Quote:

Should the planned regulations merger go through, it could open up for Super GT manufacturers Nissan, Lexus and Honda to take part in the DTM

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7091

Deja vu?

fede999 · PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:46 pm

Mattzel89 wrote:

please let this happen

Quote:

Should the planned regulations merger go through, it could open up for Super GT manufacturers Nissan, Lexus and Honda to take part in the DTM

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7091

and Joey Hand has been confirmed for 2012

I really hope it DOESN'T happen. I don't think the German manufacturers will be interested in racing in Japan and I would hate to see GT500 cars get the faux-touring car look DTM has adopted since 2004. Ah, and I don't consider 2-door sedans "coupèes" or GT cars.
Plus, remember ITC's epic failure after only one (if great) season.
And one thing's sure: it's not gonna happen in 2012.

ellis · PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:22 pm

ITC failed because the FIA made it fail. It was a good formula, but they wanted it killed off.

Metzo · PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:08 am

ITC died after Alfa and Opel decided to leave the series at the end of 1996 because it was way too expensive.

fede999 · PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:50 pm

Metzo wrote:

ITC died after Alfa and Opel decided to leave the series at the end of 1996 because it was way too expensive.

DTM isn't exactly cheap either, especially for being a national series.

It's still unclear to me if this proposed common set of rules is meant to give birth to an intercontinental series (an economical suicide, imo) or just to make a given project eligible for two championships. The latter proposal might sound good in theory, but I think most of Super GT fans in Japan couldn't care less about DTM and probably vice versa.

ellis · PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:00 pm

Metzo wrote:

ITC died after Alfa and Opel decided to leave the series at the end of 1996 because it was way too expensive.

It was deliberately made expensive by the choices the FIA made, to kill it off. They took them to countries across the world, in places the teams didn't want to go, where the cars weren't even sold. They took the TV rights, and put a sky high price on them, and they cut off paddock access to the fans. The series wasn't even dead by the time they Open and Alfa left. The FIA had to bribe Mercedes to leave by allowing them to enter an illegal car into the FIA GT Series (the CLK GTR, which at the time was not homologated) in exchange for them leaving ITC, which allowed them to kill it off.

They they managed the exact same trick with FIA GT, by allowing the Mercedes to dominate despite it not meeting the sporting regulations, which caused Porsche to leave, thus allowing them to kill off a second series which was beginning to rival Formula Ones popularity.

Alonsomania · PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:03 pm

Let Ratel do the organizing, he'll make sure it is being killed off before it starts to become really interesting.

deggis · PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:49 am

ellis wrote:

which was beginning to rival Formula Ones popularity.

Seriously...

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:37 am

deggis wrote:

ellis wrote:

which was beginning to rival Formula Ones popularity.

Seriously...

Viewing figures in the UK were rising incredibly quickly, and the TV coverage for 1994 and 1995 was excellent. I used to watch them every weekend. But for 1996 it was cut to a tiny highlights show, in the small hours, with some races not even covered at all. It isn't a coincidence.

Metzo · PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:37 pm

only because the TV Coverage changed doesn't mean the FIA killed ITC.

ITC died because the cars were too expensive. Mercedes was the only manufacturer who wanted to continue in 1997,
but without Alfa and Opel and no new manufacturer in sight ITC was forced to die.

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:41 pm

Metzo wrote:

only because the TV Coverage in the UK was different doesn't mean the FIA killed ITC.

ITC died because the cars were too expensive. Mercedes was the only manufacturer who wanted to continue in 1997,
but without Alfa and Opel and no new manufacturer in sight ITC was forced to die.

Already talked about that. It wasn't just the cost of the cars which caused it. The costs may have been high, but the income meant it worked. When travel costs quadrupled from races that teams didn't want to go to (Brazil was a huge sticking point for Alfa Romeo), and the new TV deal meant the coverage was abysmal, they could no longer justify the costs.

The series didn't die because it was only Mercedes. The series died because the FIA asked Mercedes to leave in exchange for running an illegal CLK GTR. That's a rather important point. I'm just repeating myself, so I probably won't make another post on it, but people who think that politics aren't involved in all these ridiculous decisions are a bit naive.

Quote:

A large proportion of the revenue generated by the championship went to the FIA, with the result that less went to the teams who subsequently complained of little return on their increasingly large investment in the high-tech series (this was further exacerbated by the travel costs to the new international rounds in Suzuka, Japan and Interlagos, Brazil). The FIA also increased the price for television rights dramatically with the result that television coverage of the series disappeared from all European countries except Italy, Germany and Finland, prices for tickets to races were almost doubled, and access to the circuit paddock to meet the drivers (which had previously been a big hit with fans) was drastically reduced. The choices of circuits on which to hold rounds of the championship were also unsuccessful - the rounds at Magny-Cours, France and particularly Interlagos suffered very poor attendance. Questions were also raised by the manufacturers as to why they were racing in countries in which their cars were not actually sold (Alfa Romeos were not sold in Brazil, and neither Opels nor Alfa Romeos are sold in Japan).

Quote:

In November of 1998 the very first road-going CLK GTR was completed to homologate the GT1 racecar.

By November 1998, the FIA GT Series as it was at the time was already dead. The CLK GTR hadn't been run since June, and they'd already moved onto the CLK LM. Technically, neither the CLK GTR or CLK LM was ever legal in the FIA GT Series, as it was never homologated. Politics is fun.

Metzo · PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:47 pm

ellis wrote:

The series died because the FIA asked Mercedes to leave in exchange for running an illegal CLK GTR. That's a rather important point. I'm just repeating myself, so I probably won't make another post on it, but people who think that politics aren't involved in all these ridiculous decisions are a bit naive.

lmao

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:24 pm

It's been too long since we had a good conspiracy theory here.

deggis · PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:47 am

ellis wrote:

deggis wrote:

ellis wrote:

which was beginning to rival Formula Ones popularity.

Seriously...

Viewing figures in the UK were rising incredibly quickly, and the TV coverage for 1994 and 1995 was excellent. I used to watch them every weekend. But for 1996 it was cut to a tiny highlights show, in the small hours, with some races not even covered at all. It isn't a coincidence.

Rising? Nearing F1? Turn that reply into numbers, please.

bigears · PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:32 pm

It is the same with the FIA killing off the WTCC in 1987 as it was so popular and it attracted a lot of manufacturer support and star drivers.

It was a rival to F1 so they tried to introduce the Procar series and then canned the WTCC. Later on they dropped the Procar series due to costs and lack of manufacturer support.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:26 pm

Wouldn't surprise me at all, I always thought it was curious that the rest of the world had tin top cars overtake open wheelers in the late 80's and early 90's, but Europe stayed steadfast.

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