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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:18 am 
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sebbl wrote:

I'm just amazed there was something left of Hubert after that impact. Good God. At least it was quick. Tragic.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:36 am 
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Hugely unpopular opinion here....but that last video high lights that a large chunk of blame has to be heaped on Correra there. Just look at the speed that he was carrying compared to the rest of the drivers. He never ever lifted off. Even without running over that debris he would have careened straight into Hubert.

Yes it is horrible and throwing blame around doesn't really do much at this point anymore, but lets not gloss over the fact that even in that split second he didn't do what the others did. But it will get passed over as a freak accident, which it kinda was, but really wasn't when you objectively look at it. Correra kept his foot flat on the throttle.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:25 am 
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I still think assigning blame to a driver is beyond idiotic - crashes happen they just do it's motorsports. Accidents are an inevitability; you have to make sure the crashes that happen are more survivable that's how you deal with safety but it's pure naivety to think that "oh if drivers just raced <x> <y> <z> way this wouldn't happen" and apportion blame to drivers. Pure naivety.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:16 am 
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Of course crashes happen, but I too feel that Correra was way too fast at this point, when he must have had time to notice there might be some hazard on the track.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:39 am 
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I don't want to blame Correa, his racing craftsmanship is a product of this era where there's a reward for going through run off area.

Virtual Safety Car and Halo were invented because of Bianchi's accident, but the real problem still remains. Drivers go flat out through hazard zone as they feel that it's safe.

It is these few seconds where officials has not yet raised the yellow flag or implemented sc or vsc where drivers want to gain time for the obvious restart once the track is clear again. This happens everywhere, less on long races, more on sprint races.

Now there's no restart.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:41 am 
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It's hard to blame Correa about his speed at this point.
Yes, he could have slowed down, but it's exactly because someone slowed down (Boshung?) after Alesi's crash that Hubert went off too.

If Correa had slowed down, maybe the guy behind him would have hit him and took an horrific flying crash too.

Even with time to decide it, I don't know what behavior would have been the best.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:43 am 
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Watching all the available angles of the incident, it really is puzzling why Correa takes that line through the run-off area and at such a high speed. I don't see anything that would've prompted him to go off track like that. Unless he was trying to avoid or contacted debris. But even then it just doesn't explain the speed he was carrying. Don't want to lay blame based on such limited amount of information and lack of any onboard footage but it's definitely puzzling.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 am 
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Karan wrote:
Watching all the available angles of the incident, it really is puzzling why Correa takes that line through the run-off area and at such a high speed. I don't see anything that would've prompted him to go off track like that. Unless he was trying to avoid or contacted debris.


To me it looks like he lost his frontwing already:

http://www.aehdmedia.com/images/F219001.jpg

That would explain quite a lot if you ask me.


Last edited by Echti on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 am 
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I think Correa used the run off because he was avoiding the Alesi car on the left, cars were slowing down on the left, so he went right. Not expecting to find another car there.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:31 am 
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I'm not blaming Correra in a he took a Maldonado swipe or block kind of way. I'm saying that in this split second decision it appears that he didn't lift off the throttle. In effect he drove accordingly to the current driving standards. And that is the problem.

Like NVirkkula said, all the Halo's in the world hasn't stopped the root of the problem. Poor modern track design and poor driving standards.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:52 am 
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Echti wrote:
Karan wrote:
Watching all the available angles of the incident, it really is puzzling why Correa takes that line through the run-off area and at such a high speed. I don't see anything that would've prompted him to go off track like that. Unless he was trying to avoid or contacted debris.


To me it looks like he lost his frontwing already:

http://www.aehdmedia.com/images/F219001.jpg

That would explain quite a lot if you ask me.



And as you remember Hamilton's crash from yesterday, once you are off the ideal line, you can see how difficult it is to scrub off the speed when things go wrong. While it looks like Correa was flat out, it might actually be the opposite.

When I was at Hungaroring in 2016, I saw a backmarker in Porsche Supercup dodging car in front of him and loosing it. He turned about 90 degrees, hit the guardrail and went 180 degrees on the grass. Everyone else were on the brakes and he's flying over the grass into a unavoidable collision. Suddenly that Porsche was a rocket and everyone else were slow.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:52 am 
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Spoiler:


This double video is interesting to see how it happened.

Not sure about Correa's puncture, still.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:55 am 
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Hamilton interviewed when he sees the crash on tv/track display and ends the interview.



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:20 am 
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Ayrton S. wrote:
Spoiler:


This double video is interesting to see how it happened.

Not sure about Correa's puncture, still.

Very interesting. So despite people putting part of the blame on Correa not slowing down enough, Hubert actually crashed because Boschung braked harder than expected.
And if Correa indeed had a puncture, he will have lost at least a part of his braking and/or steering power.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:35 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:44 am 
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Alesi was enormously lucky not to flip sideways like Zonta in 1999.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:04 am 
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One thing is for sure, that tyre barrier could use a Safer Barrier replacement. Just like they did at Interlagos after 2 fatal stock car crashes happened for similar reasons of this one.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Soul Reaver wrote:
One thing is for sure, that tyre barrier could use a Safer Barrier replacement. Just like they did at Interlagos after 2 fatal stock car crashes happened for similar reasons of this one.

YES, please. Let the cars slide along the wall, don't stop them and bounce them back into traffic.
This should be a no-brainer for all fast corners with narrow run-off, since most impacts there are at very shallow angles. They can keep the tyres on the first part, where there are more direct impacts, and maybe on the part facing the track where Magnussen ended, the rest (where Hubert hit) has no business having a snaggy tyre wall.

Such an unfortunate alignment of circumstances though, the whole accident. What a waste. RIP.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Omega wrote:
Ayrton S. wrote:
Spoiler:


This double video is interesting to see how it happened.

Not sure about Correa's puncture, still.

Very interesting. So despite people putting part of the blame on Correa not slowing down enough, Hubert actually crashed because Boschung braked harder than expected.
And if Correa indeed had a puncture, he will have lost at least a part of his braking and/or steering power.



Indeed it also looks like Hurbert lost all steering after hitting Boschung rear, did Hubert's his front wing got stuck un the car?
It can explain why he went straight to the tyre barrier.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:50 pm 
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Soul Reaver wrote:
One thing is for sure, that tyre barrier could use a Safer Barrier replacement. Just like they did at Interlagos after 2 fatal stock car crashes happened for similar reasons of this one.


this and diamond grinding the runoffs to make it ultra grip

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