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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Hamilton is really the new Senna, or should Senna be called the old Hamilton?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Is there a support race coming after this quali?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:22 pm 
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American Dragon wrote:
Is there a support race coming after this quali?
No, The F2 race was earlier this morning. Quali started at 5pm local time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:44 pm 
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JJ wrote:
Hamilton is really the new Senna, or should Senna be called the old Hamilton?


Or is Bottas just a really bad driver?
I don't think Hamilton has just found 0,5s this season comparing to Rosbergs difference last years.

The Mercedes is so much quicker than all the other now. More quicker than even last year, but then we had a fight between two guys from one team. Now, it seems like we gonna have a really boring 2nd part of the season for the championship.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:26 pm 
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JJ wrote:
Hamilton is really the new Senna, or should Senna be called the old Hamilton?


of course, both newcomers at McLaren getting clash with estabilished team mates, then retaining #1 status at McLaren to secure the title and leaving when they saw McLaren could not reach their rivals. Both use the religion card to say they're the best

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Well, Hamilton has never been in a non-race winning car. Almost half of his pole positions came in 2014-2016, in three seasons, compared to the rest in 7 seasons, this season not counting. Sure, he has an amazing one lap pace, but he would be nowhere near that record of his first season were a general indication. Senna drove for Toleman, Hamilton only and solely for top teams always capabable of getting a pole or win. But especially such a dominant three years with the rule changes as they are now, if you have a top car within a new regulation, you can ramp up wins and poles without interference.

If i counted correctly, Hamilton got 30 poles in 2014-2016, Rosberg 26 poles. So even in a dominant car, it doesn't seem he is that dominant, and certainly not some sort of pole-god, compared to the not-so-greatly-rated Rosberg. Also, remember, we're on 20 gp's a season now, instead of a mere 16. That's a lot more chances to get pole.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:03 pm 
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I think we have reached the what-if point now. It was shown during the Canadian GP that Senna and Hamilton set their 65 poles over the same number of seasons, albeit with Senna naturally setting a much higher percentage due to fewer races.

Senna: Pole in 40.1% of races entered
Hamilton: Pole in 33.3% of races entered, not including this weekend

The problem is, Senna then died - Hamilton probably has several more years in him, so of course the records will fall. The only one he might not reach is the overall win record. What we can't know is how many more poles Senna had in him.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:21 pm 
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if Senna kept his form in flying laps his pole tally would be unbeatable

as Schumacher only started getting poles after his death

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Regiotap wrote:
JJ wrote:
Hamilton is really the new Senna, or should Senna be called the old Hamilton?


Or is Bottas just a really bad driver?
I don't think Hamilton has just found 0,5s this season comparing to Rosbergs difference last years.

The Mercedes is so much quicker than all the other now. More quicker than even last year, but then we had a fight between two guys from one team. Now, it seems like we gonna have a really boring 2nd part of the season for the championship.

I do believe that the last two weekends we simply witnessed magical laps by Hamilton, like Paddy Lowe said in an interview at the Canadian GP. Laptimes, Theaterregisseur seemingly not in the car due to simulations. Look at the reactions of Merc themselves. I think Bottas is quite good. Even with Rosberg, if nothing went wrong, Lewis as usually 3 tenths in front.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:09 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:

as Schumacher only started getting poles after his death


A clever feat, the posthumous pole :lol:

I find the constant need in f1 circles to try and talk down Lewis' achievements quite bizarre.

Like him or not you have to admit he is a great talent, we're just lucky tbh this era has similar talents that came to the fore during Lewis' time such as Vettel, Alonso and rosberg who can give him a run for his money, whereas Michael had his era to himself, hence his high stats record.

If you don't think Lewis is a prestigious talent then your hatred for him masks any chance of a fair analysis, just admit you don't like him as a person and move on.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Lewis is also very clever for craving his spot on strong cars, I guess he never stayed a season without wins

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:26 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
LucasWheldon wrote:

as Schumacher only started getting poles after his death


A clever feat, the posthumous pole :lol:

I find the constant need in f1 circles to try and talk down Lewis' achievements quite bizarre.

Like him or not you have to admit he is a great talent, we're just lucky tbh this era has similar talents that came to the fore during Lewis' time such as Vettel, Alonso and rosberg who can give him a run for his money, whereas Michael had his era to himself, hence his high stats record.

If you don't think Lewis is a prestigious talent then your hatred for him masks any chance of a fair analysis, just admit you don't like him as a person and move on.


I don't agree with you much, but this right here is pretty much spot on.

I don't care for Hamilton at all, but I respect greatness when I see it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:51 pm 
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gkmotorsport wrote:
Senna: Pole in 40.1% of races entered
Hamilton: Pole in 33.3% of races entered, not including this weekend

Presented this way, these stats are obnoxiously high. :o

Obviously it's an average, since drivers tend to get the bulk of their poles in the team's dominant years and fewer ones in their bad years, but it's still hard to fathom that since Hamilton joined F1, one third of the qualy sessions we've watched have been poled by him.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:12 am 
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siggy wrote:
Well, Hamilton has never been in a non-race winning car. Almost half of his pole positions came in 2014-2016, in three seasons, compared to the rest in 7 seasons, this season not counting. Sure, he has an amazing one lap pace, but he would be nowhere near that record of his first season were a general indication. Senna drove for Toleman, Hamilton only and solely for top teams always capabable of getting a pole or win. But especially such a dominant three years with the rule changes as they are now, if you have a top car within a new regulation, you can ramp up wins and poles without interference.

If i counted correctly, Hamilton got 30 poles in 2014-2016, Rosberg 26 poles. So even in a dominant car, it doesn't seem he is that dominant, and certainly not some sort of pole-god, compared to the not-so-greatly-rated Rosberg. Also, remember, we're on 20 gp's a season now, instead of a mere 16. That's a lot more chances to get pole.


Interestingly, in what was arguably the most dominate and crushing years in F1 by a driver (2002,2004) Schumacher only took 15 poles 7 and 8 in those 2 seasons.....however he also took 24 wins out of 91 in that period. Over 25% of his victories in those 2 years.

Hamilton has 35 poles and 34 wins from 2014 - present.

No point really other than top drivers always cash in when they have the chance and more importantly....they get themselves consistently into those positions.

I don't like Lewis, but I'm not going to deny his talent. Having said that I also don't think he is some kind of Demi God. I actually think Alonso is a better driver, but hey look at him, he won't be considered an all time great (top 3 or 4) but Hamilton will. Why? Because Lewis has put himself into positions to be in the best machinery on the grid and consistently stay there.

Don't ever underestimate that. F1 is littered with fantastic drivers who haven't put themselves into a position to be in the best machinery, or they have at the wrong time, or they have and then blown their chance.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:33 am 
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Alonso won't be forgotten.

People still rate alesi as a potential champion that missed out due to one bad decision, career wise, and sing the praises of plenty of drivers who never became champion due to misfortune.

Alonso's career of early promise on track squandered by bad off track career choices won't be forgotten when it comes to listing the all time great drivers and rightly so.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Hamilton had to reverse back onto the track on his installation lap?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Tobias wrote:
Hamilton had to reverse back onto the track on his installation lap?


things like that could kill the clutch

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Tobias wrote:
Hamilton had to reverse back onto the track on his installation lap?


He locked up at turn 3 and ran off.


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