2014 Random F1 Discussion

phil1993 · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:21 pm

alex1369 wrote:

Yeh, find somewhere the pre race stuff of Malaysian GP on ORF1 and you will see.
If its 134db why dont pepole wear earlugs when you watch the amateur videos? Would 10db make such a big difference that they dont need them?
So it has to be 75db then... but that was on ORF1

Because it works incrementally
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

134db is still loud. But the way it works is that 145 is much much louder. Like the Richter scale.

There was no way you could stand next to a V8 engine without earplugs for too long. If you could, you're not close enough!

I can believe that they're still loud. At Jerez - when they were still in the very early stages - you still had to stop talking if a car went by say 2m away from you.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:24 pm

You have to pretty pretty DUMB to believe this engines are just slightly quieter than the V8s and louder than Indy.

If that was the case, FOM would be doing a horrible job capturing the sound because it is immediately very clear to any one how the V8s or Indycar's V6s sound louder on the tv broadcasts

Also, if they are just half dozen dB quieter, that wouldn't be enough to skip the ear plug.

Just more FIA BS. And I don't have an agenda with this, the sound is not what bothers me about this season

edit: also, you don't hear tyre squealing or the wind in Indycar. This BS is just so fucking stupid. Sorry for my aggressive tone but I just hate lies

alex1369 · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:26 pm

I dont know, but that was on ORF1 last week. So i dont know if the measuring numbers are true?

StanV · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:28 pm

phil1993, you better stop lying. Your ears are conspiring with the FIA!

Indycar still seems to sound louder because their engines still are...pitched higher. An extreme example is the way a Corvette C6.R sounds on TV vs. on track, it's an amazing difference.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 pm

StanV wrote:

phil1993, you better stop lying. Your ears are conspiring with the FIA!

Sorry

11db is a big difference. But the F1 cars are still loud. They are a different sort of loud and they will still impress you.

I've never heard IndyCar in the flesh so I can't compare, but the F1 engines sounded better today through the TV than they have done so far. FOM are still learning with the mic placement.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:41 pm

don't do that. I didn't say he was the one lying. He didn't say they are louder than Indy(have he ever heard a Indycar live for comparison?)

I remember phil saying, when in Jerez, how the engines were not loud. He said he liked their sound but they were not loud.

Besides that, and I know that the dB is a logarithmic scale, if the F1 were louder than Indy's V6, their sound would muffle the wind and tyre squealing.

Sound pitch is one thing, sound intensity is another

phil1993 · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:43 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

I remember phil saying, when in Jerez, how the engines were not loud. He said he liked their sound but they were not loud.
.

Indeed they're not, because, well, they're not. But important to remember that I often stood trackside with maximum four cars out there with the best lap at 7s off the pace of 2013. So...

It's difficult to use TV as a barometre as the V8s hardly sounded the same on TV as trackside.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:52 pm

The thing I'm on here is not to bash the sound, I just can't fathom how can F1 V6 be claimed to be louder than Indycar's V6 when in one you hear other noises like wind and tyres, during lock ups, while in the other it's all muffled

I'm not actually criticizing the PUs, albeit I'm not their biggest fan. Tbh, people need to move on, the PUs are not gonna get changed any time soon. Everybody just have to deal with it

phil1993 · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:53 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

The thing I'm on here is not to bash the sound, I just can't fathom how can F1 V6 be claimed to be louder than Indycar's V6 when in one you hear other noises like wind and tyres, during lock ups, while in the other it's all muffled

I'm not actually criticizing the PUs, albeit I'm not their biggest fan. Tbh, people need to move on, the PUs are not gonna get changed any time soon. Everybody just have to deal with it

The way the microphones pick up the noise, the direction the noise travels.

A single IndyCar is 128db, just for a comparison.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:19 pm

alex1369 wrote:

Yeh, find somewhere the pre race stuff of Malaysian GP on ORF1 and you will see.
If its 134db why dont pepole wear earlugs when you watch the amateur videos? Would 10db make such a big difference that they dont need them?
So it has to be 75db then... but that was on ORF1

The headphones comparison isn't very reliable, because this comes down to personal preference. I went to the 2004 British GP and didn't feel the need to wear earplugs, although it was near my own tolerance. However, I'd say that only half of the people we saw had any kind of ear protection on.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:21 pm

phil1993 wrote:

Artur Craft wrote:

The thing I'm on here is not to bash the sound, I just can't fathom how can F1 V6 be claimed to be louder than Indycar's V6 when in one you hear other noises like wind and tyres, during lock ups, while in the other it's all muffled

I'm not actually criticizing the PUs, albeit I'm not their biggest fan. Tbh, people need to move on, the PUs are not gonna get changed any time soon. Everybody just have to deal with it

The way the microphones pick up the noise, the direction the noise travels.

A single IndyCar is 128db, just for a comparison.

The tracks probably influence this, too. Most street circuits will create echoes and focus engine noise back along the track which could mask other sounds, whereas your average Tilkedrome has a large open area into which sound can escape. The lack of tyre noise could even be something as simple as the construction of the tyres themselves - not all tyres make the same noise when they lose grip.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:26 pm

phil1993 wrote:

The way the microphones pick up the noise, the direction the noise travels.

A single IndyCar is 128db, just for a comparison.

Taking FOM and American tvs out of the equation, I saw many amateur videos of winter testings and the cars were much quieter when compared to the same amateur videos of the V8s. I don't remember seeing an amateur video of Indycar to compare but I guess it's the same.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:34 pm

Also, as has already been pointed out, the Decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. There are plenty of comparative examples that anyone can Google, but here's a few approximate values:

60dB: Spoken conversation
70dB: Busy street traffic
75dB: ORF1's apparent measure of a 2014 F1 car
80dB: Vacuum cleaner
100dB: Petrol lawnmower
120dB: Thunderclap
120dB: Rock concert
130dB: Pain threshold for most people
134dB: FIA's measure of a 2014 F1 car
135dB: Fighter jet at takeoff
140dB: Threshold for possible ear damage; ear protection recommended
140dB: Jet engine at take off from 100'
143dB: FIA's measure of a 2013 F1 car

Because the scale is logarithmic, a gap of 10dB is *very roughly* a doubling of apparent loudness. So, these cars almost certainly are a lot quieter, but still louder than a lot of very loud things. I'm not sure I can accept them as quieter than a vacuum cleaner, even given the sound comparisons :P

StanV · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:39 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

Sound pitch is one thing, sound intensity is another

Yes, but higher pitched sounds always appear to sound louder.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:39 pm

I'm so bored of this noise moaning already

Particularly when all the engine butthurt means the ugly noses are getting a free pass

Mäth · PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:47 pm

alex1369 wrote:

Yeh, find somewhere the pre race stuff of Malaysian GP on ORF1 and you will see.
If its 134db why dont pepole wear earlugs when you watch the amateur videos? Would 10db make such a big difference that they dont need them?
So it has to be 75db then... but that was on ORF1

Roughly, decibels are a measure of air pressure. You can have a very low tone sound with a high intensity value (long wave-lenght with high pressure) which may not be as easy to hear as a high pitch sound with a low intensity value (short wave lenght with low pressure). I remember watching an episode of Mythbusters where they were testing the myth that being exposed to infrasound (very long wave-lenght, low pitch) for a certain amount of time will make you pee. They used 4 (not sure though) huge speakers and they measured, with a decibelmeter, 140 decibels but the sound was barely noticeable, but the vibration was so hard that some could barely stand on their feet. So decibels and pitch are two very different things that are somehow linked, but you cannot judge a sound on one of these figures alone, you have to make things out of both. And a 1 decibel gap means that sound is 10 times "quiter" or "louder" depending on what the comparison point is.

:Edit// I missed a few posts, so I think we all reached the same point lol

RtN · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:49 am

Bernie driving down the price of his product as he attempts to buy it back.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113312

JEV was taken to hospital after Melbourne because of dehydration.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vergn ... -f1-diets/

Gaara · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:58 am

On another note, we could have two new teams next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113313

JJ · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:09 pm

Excellent if true. 26 cars provide more opportunities for young drivers and more action on track.

StanV · PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:22 pm

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-w ... ar-report/

Quote:

FIA wins battle, Ecclestone goes to war - report

Schmidt reports that the top teams in the new F1 strategy group - Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes - counter-punched with a proposal of EUR 260 million.
In effect, that would not be a budget 'cap' at all.

But Todt is now even saying: "All six teams in the strategy group are suddenly against a budget cap."
The other strategy group teams are McLaren, Williams and Lotus. It appears Ecclestone may be moving to corner Todt and the FIA.

Initially a wild rumour, it now appears more and more plausible that Ecclestone is attempting a takeover coup that could leave F1's governing body completely in the cold.

Schmidt reports that Ecclestone is so serious he is even prepared to drop the name 'Formula One', which is owned by the FIA, in favour of 'GP1'.
Devaluing the existing FIA-controlled F1, by incessantly complaining about quiet engines and a dull, complicated, fuel-saving spectacle, suddenly makes sense.
Schmidt reports that Todt was informed about the strategy group's newfound total opposition to a budget cap through a letter from none other than Ecclestone.

TBK-Light.com

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