2013 Random F1 Discussion

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:06 pm

kals wrote:

increase cornering speeds, decrease braking distances, etc... so no different to increasing aerodynamically induced downforce.

I think if you'd increase cornering speeds it might help overtaking to an extent as it would require greater precision from a driver, thus increasing the risk of a minor mistake/loss of speed. But I agree - I'm not fully clued up on the technical side of cars but logic suggests that if you're braking at 80m rather than 120m, it's far harder to out-brake a rival.

kals · PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:20 pm

There will always be mistakes regardless of grip on offer.

The way I see it, to produce good racing there must be a ratio of aerodynamics and mechanical grip over torque and overall power available. Too much of one thing will adversely affect the ratio and could produce poor racing (i.e. too much aero grip and too little power). Not sure if that only makes sense or is just gibberish.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:38 pm

I still think that apart from performance the cars would look better, a retro style. But again is one opinion, I don't like that slim shape at all

scarsurfing · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:24 am

Wider rear tire with 17 inch rims lower profile would look very cool.
and v10 engines...

gd49 · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:11 am

Think if the cars were very dependent on mechanical grip you might get better racing as you wouldn't get issues with dirty air when close to other cars. But to achieve that I think you need to reduce aero not increase mechanical grip.

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:59 am

The problem with too much grip is that when you make a mistake, you just have an off, rather than slide a bit wide. Because the speed is higher, the vehicle is more on edge, the consequences are greater. It's why you get better racing in slower cars. The grip level is lower, but the mistakes just mean you have crap runs out of corners and whatever, rather than go off the circuit.

Quote:

The current tyre dimensions are antiquated and do not directly relate to any part of the current day automotive industry let alone any other form of motorsport.

To be fair, almost nothing in F1s history has been relative to the road car industry. Now we move to KERS, so the cars are technically hybrids, but we pick a hybrid system that has NO use on the road. Toyota, Audi and Peugeot all had more relevant hybrid systems in the LMPs.

BrainPain · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:11 pm

KERS has its place on road cars though, aren't Toyota using it to get rid of fuel consumption in accelerations?

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:21 pm

That's not KERS, because it's automated. That's the system that Toyota run on the LMP, where you use an electric battery under acceleration to aid fuel consumption and stress on the petrol motor. F1 is different where you can only use it for set amount of times, and the system is basically worthless after 1 run. F1 basically has a rebranded Push to Pass system, whilst the Toyota road cars have an automated always on (when available) hybrid.

Toyota and Audis system can be used at any time. It is always charging, and always charges enough to use it over the areas that it is useful. Audi is limited to when it can use it's system because it's 4WD, and would give an advantage, but it can physically do it if the rules allowed. Toyota also runs a super capacitor rather than a battery, whilst Audi uses a flywheel.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:34 pm

I'm almost sure Audi uses a Williams based KERS system with it's flywheel as Porsche(in other words, VAG) sort of bought it from, or partnered with Frank's team some years ago and will also use it.

Also, Toyota already had road cars that recovered energy from braking earlier than F1 started using it in 2009.

Tbh, F1 hardly invented anything in their history

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:44 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

Tbh, F1 hardly invented anything in their history

that's something that could make arguments against cost reduction invalid

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:41 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

I'm almost sure Audi uses a Williams based KERS system with it's flywheel as Porsche(in other words, VAG) sort of bought it from, or partnered with Frank's team some years ago and will also use it.

Also, Toyota already had road cars that recovered energy from braking earlier than F1 started using it in 2009.

Tbh, F1 hardly invented anything in their history

Audi do use the Williams system, however they never used it in F1. It's only ever ran in that Porsche and in the Audi.

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:54 pm

Yes, this argument of F1 improving road cars only makes motorsport supporters lose any credibility.

It's sport, just a spectacle that has no use or benefit for society except as entertainment for its fans. Why do we always have to justify that our sport is useful while football for example never has to?

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:01 pm

I have always claimed exactly the same as you, coldtyre. Exactly!

Diageo · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:03 am

Quote:

Die Welt: Ferrari is in talks with Hulkenberg

http://www.welt.de/sport/formel1/article119248020/Ferrari-fuehrt-Gespraeche-mit-Huelkenberg.html

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:00 am

Well said, Scotty.

While there might be not much visible technological development in modern F1, there's still a lot on engineering level, that can be exported to road cars in the future. And it's easy to overlook the newest things in F1 and say that it has no place for road cars. Carbon fibre and turboes were probably overlooked in the early 80's, but today they're quite common things.

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:07 am

Scotty wrote:

coldtyre wrote:

It's sport, just a spectacle that has no use or benefit for society except as entertainment for its fans. Why do we always have to justify that our sport is useful while football for example never has to?

Has no benefit? Anyone who thinks that is a complete moron! How do you test a component? Test it to it's limit. What's the best way to do that? Go racing. It's obvious. F1 has lessened this to an extent in the last 5-10 years, hence why less road car companies are involved in the sport. But point stands. It still has a massive benefit to road car manufacturers. However, Le Mans cars have arguably over taken F1 in developmental usefulness, but KERS technology and introduction of new regulations in 2014 will be a huge step forward. Turbo technology can go into the road cars from there. Diesel tech too.

Football doesn't have to justify itself because it has no technology. Aside from the players boots, clothes and the ball there isn't much more to develop. A car has 5000 components to develop.

And that's a big part of motorsport's beauty. Well said, Mr. Scotty.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:27 pm

coldtyre wrote:

Yes, this argument of F1 improving road cars only makes motorsport supporters lose any credibility.

It's sport, just a spectacle that has no use or benefit for society except as entertainment for its fans. Why do we always have to justify that our sport is useful while football for example never has to?

Because everyone likes football and anyone can buy a football and a put up a makeshift goal. It's accessible and simple and doesn't need to be justified. We have to justify our sport as being useful because it's complex, expensive, and no longer in line with what's important on the road.

ellis · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Scotty wrote:

Football doesn't have to justify itself because it has no technology. Aside from the players boots, clothes and the ball there isn't much more to develop. A car has 5000 components to develop.

Motorsport doesn't have to justify itself either. People seem to think it does, but why? Because it's expensive? It's all paid for by itself, it's not like tax payers fund it. The money comes from rich dudes and companies wanting advertising exposure So why should motorsport have to justify itself?

What F1 has done most for road cars was actually unconnected to F1 - the FIA safety research has had a HUGE impact on road car safety, far more than F1 ever has or will. Arguably there are single race cars in WEC which have more impact than the last 20 years of F1 combined though.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:24 pm

Quote:

Pirelli cancels wider 2014 tyres

Despite ongoing uncertainty about who will be the tyre supplier for Formula One in 2014, Pirelli have confirmed that its plans to have wider rear tyres are now scrapped as teams opposed to the suggestion.

The Italian tyre manufacturer has confirmed by means of its motor sport boss that the size of its tyres will not be changing into the 2014 season. Pirelli suggested to increase the width of the rear tyres to cope with the additional torque of the 2014 turbo engines, but following a consultation round with teams this has now been cancelled.

Paul Hembery told Auto Motor und Sport that data supplied by one engine supplier in particular - widely believed to be Mercedes - was alarming. This seems to confirm earlier beliefs that the Mercedes V6 will be a lot more powerful in the beginning of 2014 than its competitors.

"Based on the information we have received from most of the teams, we have decided to keep the same tyre dimensions (in 2014)", Hembery said.

"But as the cars of next year will make very different demands of the tyres, we have proposed that the regulations be amended so that the teams may use different compounds front and rear, should it be necessary."

In an attempt not to extend the possible performance gap by allowing more rear grip from the tyres, rear tyre and dim dimensions will remain the same.

shit

Also curious the bit about Mercedes' engine being rumoured, or believed, as having more power than it's rivals. First time I read this speculation :-/

codename_47 · PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:24 pm

So Mercedes will be fastest in a straight line next year...big deal.

Williams used to have more horsepower in the Schumacher dominant era (got them a few wins and a hell of a lot of poles with Montoya) but it didn't mean anything when Michael was winning every week...

Red Bull this year are rarely fastest in a straight line either. That's not how F1 works any more.

Sadly.

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2013 Random F1 Discussion

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