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I pretty much had the same feeling as 'DeCesaris fan' about his career beginning, but grew up to love how he matured and became a solid front runner, class-act fighter, and clever race winner. But I still don't feel that extra something that makes Vettels, Alonsos and Hamiltons.
I admit it's very subjective and can't be explained by his (very good) achievement record.


The FIA allowed it to prevent in-race epilepsy risk amongst drivers following the Ferrari, as well as TV viewers [citation needed].

Autosport report that there will be no fanvision at this years f1. Damn shame, it was a really useful bit of kit.

Today's random F1 ex-champion related news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-20973153

Competent yes, but Ralf was very rarely threatened.

Agreed.

JV is average.

Definitely some of his most impressive years. Made Sato look a lot worse than he probably was.

Agree.

The first half of the season was, with a very impressive 6 wins in 7. Where was he after that though, when the other teams had caught up? Only 2 more podiums all season, whilst Rubens went on to win a couple of races, and outscore Button in the second half of the season.


It's difficult to understand what happened to Lewis in 2011. He seemed to hit just about everything, whilst Button was strong and consistent. I feel 2010 and 2012 are far more representative of the pace of the two. If you were a team manager, and had to pick between the two, who would you want in your car? (In terms of getting the best results, not most likeable

As I said, I think Button is good. I think Webber is good. Can you honestly rate either of them in the same league as Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton though?

No, but I'd put Button in a higher league then Webber though.

It's really difficult to judge. Webber was very impressive in lesser teams. I think he has the problem of being up against one of the best drivers, as well as getting on in years (probably past his peak).

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Just interesting to see different opinions. As webbsy said, it's cool to be able to discuss with all of you.

Yeaa just my opinion. I know people won't agree, don't care

As for choosing between Button and Hamilton? That's rather hard isn't it? Button goes off the rails when the car has problems while with Hamilton there's a chance he could go off the rails when the car's very good. Hamilton can get the best out of a bad car while Button is utterly brilliant in changing conditions and give him a good car he can be very good. Can I cheat and say taking DNA from both and creating the perfect driver?

Man love in this thread, culminating with hot driver-on-driver action.

I think I like this place, too.

Webber's a circuit specialist. He's absolutely incredible at Monaco and Silverstone, which just shows his class. Remember 2006 when he dragged that shitbox Williams in the top 3 until it blew up? He's pretty damn good at the Nurburgring too. But at the Tilke circuits he just can't cut it compared to Vettel.

I just think that throughout this year, I'm going to watch McLaren and wonder what Lewis would have done. Jenson's good, but not as good as Lewis. Not in pure pace anyway. Jenson has about 3 or 4 weekends a year where he's supreme, but he has too many off days to sustain another title challenger, unless the MP4-28 is a rocket.

My personal rating is that Vettel and Hamilton are the two fastest guys, with Alonso the best all-rounder. Button slots in behind those guys, then Webber. It's difficult though!

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I think Webber is just a very likable guy which makes it difficult to truly judge him.

Personal top 5 drivers for 2013:

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Raikkonen
5. Button

But very close indeed.

No-one including me ever stated as part of this discussion or in answer to you points that Button was in the same league as Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton.

What was said was that Button shouldn't be grouped together with Massa, Webber, et al. And he's far better and been more impressive (especially in year one) than you're suggesting.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Great read here about the 2014 power units
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/01/a ... e-in-2014/

7s to 33s worth of KERS a lap! How are they going to use it all, and will there be enough engine braking at tracks like Monza? I'm looking forward to 2014 already!

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I'm not sold. 33s of KERS means that everyone can use it everywhere, so there'll be no tactics involved when it comes to using it. And the fact that they're going to be allowed less fuel makes me worry we'll see lots of fuel efficiency races.

Im not looking forward to 2014 new engine rules. F1 must have a sound!! Like it has now, but can only be better with V10. But 1.6 V6, i dont think so. I dont want to listen to my car when i go to GP. The sound of new engines will suck. The best engine that i hear was of course V10, but BMWs V8 in 2006 was brutal, it was like it wants to rip the surface from the ground.

Turbos from the eighties were brutal, the 2006 V8's are nothing in comparison. The 2014 1.6 turbos will be veyr interesting and in my opinion much better sounding that the whiny boring current engines.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

The journalists who visited Mercedes's power unit today were all impressed by the sound. Everyone's being too critical. I've only ever heard the V8s in the flesh, which are supposedly the crappiest engines of the lot.

@

Schumifan - Yeah, it might lessen the impact of KERS. Fuel efficiency? Maybe, but they'll sort it out. My main worry is that it increases finances initially, which might make it tough for some teams. At the moment, there's a good balance of competitiveness. That might disappear towards the middle of 2013 and maybe even into 2014.

Oh, and for pedantry, they will be called Power Units, not engines. Typical F1!

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I think they should stop trying to make F1 look like some energy-efficient development showroom. It isn't. It will never be, as road cars will always be more efficient and fuel-saving than race cars.

The average consumer might be bullshited by that "F1 technology applied to road cars" speech but let's not lie to ourselves, the 7 or 33-second KERS system is nothing compared to a hybrid road car.

For me, F1 is sports and entertainment and shouldn't be anything else. This mission was fulfilled 200% in 2012, and there's no point in altering the winning formula into something that might be just as good sports-wise, or just backfire horribly.

I am not against change, but after 15 years of boredom we finally got something awesome. I want it to stay as it is for 3 or 4 years before additional technical changes.

Every year like 2012 would be nice, but it doesn't happen. F1 changes, and it needs to change before everything stagnates.

Just as an aside, Hadsley + I caught up with Paul Hembery yesterday. On the podcast you'll hear Hadsley bowing down before Hembery!
http://www.f1zone.net/news/paul-hembrey ... -f1/17333/

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I guess I assumed that being better than Webber, Massa etc. meant you had him on a par with some of the best. Apologies. Well, at the very least, you may have inspired me to go back through some of the races from 2000

I'm with you on the turbos, though!