TBK-Light.com
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/

2023 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=2047		 Page 354 of 453
Author:  Cheeveer [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Ordonez will do Japanese F3 and Super GT as well, so I guess he's Le Mans only.
Author:  deggis [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
ptclaus98 wrote:
deggis wrote:
Two more Nissan drivers: Ordonez & Mardenborough. Begs the question how much of a PR decision this was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZke23dw1E

Why? They've been grooming Jann, and Ordonez has the most experience of the GTA guys, and is a very good driver in his own right. Cox has said he wants an American for 2016. Now THAT is a PR decision.

Point was not that they are bad choices per se (at least Mardenborough isn't, he is clearly more special than the other GTA winners) but that they were pretty much forced to do this because GTA. Lineup without a single GTA was just never going to happen. Now they are against all pros (unlike in LMP2) and can't see them being great as developmental drivers because of the inherit experience decifit (last year Mardenborough was driving as much as possible just to gain experience from driving different kind of cars).

And I don't rate GTA highly if that wasn't clear by now :lol: If it proves something it proves that backing especially from a manufacturer at young age helps a lot and that modern race cars are far cry from the more brutal ones decades ago. I wonder if results would be much different if instead of Gran Turismo players they'd just pick thousands of random people from street and eventually narrow them down to few fit enough and determined enough (the kind of determination atheletes have).
Author:  StanV [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Behind the Porsche-scenes (with a lot of typos and mistakes in people's names): https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/modern/p ... 19-testing

The new Porsche looks badass on track, though... Might also have something to do with that colour-scheme, which obviously will never stay that way by the time the season arrives.

Image

Image
Author:  deggis [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Imagine the side profile with out the fin :(
Author:  StanV [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Shhh, don't put those thoughts in one's head. I've suppressed them.
Author:  Artur Craft [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
deggis wrote:
Imagine the side profile with out the fin :(

Yep, just another useless way to make the cars uglier. I can't buy this makes miracles in preventing flips, which were always a rare thing anyway
Author:  ellis [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Artur Craft wrote:
deggis wrote:
Imagine the side profile with out the fin :(

Yep, just another useless way to make the cars uglier. I can't buy this makes miracles in preventing flips, which were always a rare thing anyway


This just isn't true. in 2008, Oreca, Creation, Audi, Peugeot and a Lola all took off. Some of these more than once. And this is just off the top of my head.

LMPs were taking off more than any other form of car, with perhaps the exception of NASCAR, which is only more because of the huge fields and weekly races. Whilst the fin may not be the prettiest attempt to solve cars taking off, to suggest it isn't required and flying cars were not a problem is a purely fictional look at the past.

Image
Author:  Artur Craft [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Tbh, I wasn't following sportscar racing closely in 2008 and had in mind only the famous Webber/Mercedes one.

Such a pity, though, as cars would look so much better without it...

I have watched lots of footage from WSCC, Le Mans(80's and early 90's), IMSA GTP and don't remember prototypes being that prone to taking off(once touched and put somewhat sideways). Was it also common back then(I mean 80's up untill 93)?

Those cars had way more downforce than LMP1s, though, and that can make a difference, I guess. For comparison, Toyota have revelead their downforce figures for Le Mans config, last year in Japan:
Image

That's 1450kg at 280kmh and, for instance, 1992 Nissan NPT-91 GTP achieved 2500kg(at same speed, obviously, and in low downforce configuration). So just 58% of the downforce and that is even less on high downforce config as GTPs had bigger wings
Author:  deggis [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Artur Craft wrote:
I have watched lots of footage from WSCC, Le Mans(80's and early 90's), IMSA GTP and don't remember prototypes being that prone to taking off(once touched and put somewhat sideways). Was it also common back then(I mean 80's up untill 93)?

I guess not really common, but at least:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x795citwz10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxKgXhTJtD4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJwCdKOYi9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ReHrTw9W3Y

1998-2000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XxQkXCmsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ELHlnsh-M
then of course 3x Mercedes at Le Mans.

2000s:
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=133
Quote:
2008: Marc Gene, Peugeot 908, Le Mans - flip in practice
2008: Hideki Noda, Lola-Mazda, Le Mans - flip in practice/qualifying
2009: Benoit Treluyer, Peugeot 908, Le mans - flip in race
2012: Anthony Davidson, Toyota TS030, Le Mans - flip in race
2014: Loic Duval, Audi R18, Le Mans - flip in practice

ALMS
2008: Ben Devlin, Lola B07/40 Mazda, Sebring - flip in qualification

ILMC/WEC
2008: Stephane Ortelli, Oreca Courage LC70, Monza - flip in race
2010: Marc Gene, Peugeot 908, Motorland Aragon - flip in testing
2011: Nicolas Minassian, Peugeot 908, Paul Ricard - flip in testing

Some of those have just eye witness confirmation. Besides those I remember at least these "got air under the car while spinning but did end up flipping": Jamie Campbell-Walter at Monza (LMS testing/practice, it's on video too but did not find it), McNish or Capello at Spa (ILMC), Peugeot at Silverstone (ILMC. I think it is the RCE cover above)

As a summary: definitely biggest issue in the 2000s just by the amount of them, but none of these or GrC ones are like the ones from 1999 which just straight off took off without having a contact or tyre failure.
Author:  Chris A [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
I thought the big fin was just for stability. I didn't realize it was a measure enacted to keep the cars grounded during high-speed spins.
Author:  deggis [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
:D
Author:  Zorba [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Looks like slot cars side wings.
Author:  westracing01 [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
That fin is supposed to disrupt the air over the car and stall lift. It, like the roof flaps in NASCAR, is not always effective, but it has reduced the number of cars going airborne. In the mid-late 2000's anytime an LMP went sideways it was a 50/50 chance it was taking flight.
Author:  hedgey666 [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Imagine Ant Davidson's Toyota flip at Le Mans a couple of years ago if the the fin hadn't been there....
Author:  Artur Craft [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
thanks for the post, deggis :yes:

Masahiro Hasemi one in Fuji 91 is unavoidable, though, methinks. He drove into the grass(after a tire failure), spun the car and got it almost backwards. I think the underbody will work to create lift if the rear diffuser is almost pointed frontwards. But even then, the flip was very small and harmless. Nothing to freak out, really.

Takao Wada one seems like a replay of Hasemi's. Same place, same year, car spins(seemed also a tire failure) and then has a small flip. It's interesting that it only starts to take off when he's pretty much backwards. 86 IMSA one is the same, ie, spins and make underbody create lift

1998-2000 I won't even comment because they already had much less downforce by then(even less than nowadays) and that was my point

In early 90's, prototypes were more diverse, had way more downforce, looked cooler and didn't need this ugly fin :( Well, but WEC is still exciting and fun with even true variety now with GT-R LM, so I can't complain much.
Author:  ptclaus98 [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Artur Craft wrote:
thanks for the post, deggis :yes:

Masahiro Hasemi one in Fuji 91 is unavoidable, though, methinks. He drove into the grass(after a tire failure), spun the car and got it almost backwards. I think the underbody will work to create lift if the rear diffuser is almost pointed frontwards. But even then, the flip was very small and harmless. Nothing to freak out, really.

Takao Wada one seems like a replay of Hasemi's. Same place, same year, car spins(seemed also a tire failure) and then has a small flip. It's interesting that it only starts to take off when he's pretty much backwards. 86 IMSA one is the same, ie, spins and make underbody create lift

1998-2000 I won't even comment because they already had much less downforce by then(even less than nowadays) and that was my point

In early 90's, prototypes were more diverse, had way more downforce, looked cooler and didn't need this ugly fin :( Well, but WEC is still exciting and fun with even true variety now with GT-R LM, so I can't complain much.

Yeah, save for the inferno that he was lucky to escape from.
Author:  Matthiasw [ Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Image

The Steering Wheel of the Nissan LMP... I think i saw that somewhere before lol
Author:  deggis [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
What video?
Author:  Artur Craft [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
seems some amateur from an auto show(Chicago).
Author:  Matthiasw [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Yep, was posted by Fanatec, (The Video) and I took the picture out of it :-)
Page 354 of 453 All times are UTC+01:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/