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2023 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
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Author:  StanV [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Fish88 wrote:
deggis wrote:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/5448/BMW-Z4-GTE.html

Image


Still looks like an upgraded GT3 to me. And that's what I don't like about it. I hate the downgrading off classes at Le Mans. Good to see that BMW still commits to the class, but I shiver at the thoughts of GT3 at Le Mans.


Porsche GT3 R looks better and more racey than its GTE counterpart this year, for example, but they have been similar for a long time now. I don't get why you'd dislike it for 'looking like' a Z4 GT3? Not liking the looks of Z4 in race-trim makes sense and is up to one's taste, but it only seems logical to me that the GT3 & GTE look alike, as they're both based on the same car :p
Author:  Fish88 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
As a Die Hard GT1 fan I hate it already that we have to put up with GTE. Downgrading to GT3 would be just awefull :yuk: ! And with the downgrading the cars that enter GT are just the entry level cars from the manufactures like the Gallardo, 458, 991, Vantage etc. With the current GT rules we will never see a race version of the new Vanquish, F12, Aventandor and the even faster cars.

Already lost interest in collecting modelcars because the current GT cars can't bother me (although that is positive for my finances...)!!!
Spoiler:
Image

You get my frustration now. I like the new Viper (thx to the waiver) and look forward to the new Corvette, and the new Aston looks brutal, to not completely sound like a whine baby ;) .
Author:  StanV [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
I grew up in the GTS/GT1-era as well, and my collection kind of looks similar to yours! But I thought you were just talking about the looks of the car, not the performance. You can't say that this Z4 wouldn't fit nicely with those others in terms of how it looks (and it's the only BMW actually eligible for GT-entry)

I also don't want the LM GT rules to continuously downgrade towards GT3, so I'm fully with you on that. However, you should also 'blame' the manufacturers for this trend because the fact GT1 died is due to a declining interest in developing and investing in more expensive GT1's. I think that trend started around 2005 when the DBR9/C6.R/MC12 had their big debuts and, for example, we only had 35-ish entries for the 24H of Spa with very few GT1's. After that, there was really no interest anymore, unless you count the 'new GT1' Ford and Nissan.
Author:  Fish88 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
StanV wrote:
I grew up in the GTS/GT1-era as well, and my collection kind of looks similar to yours! But I thought you were just talking about the looks of the car, not the performance. You can't say that this Z4 wouldn't fit nicely with those others in terms of how it looks (and it's the only BMW actually eligible for GT-entry)

I also don't want the LM GT rules to continuously downgrade towards GT3, so I'm fully with you on that. However, you should also 'blame' the manufacturers for this trend because the fact GT1 died is due to a declining interest in developing and investing in more expensive GT1's. I think that trend started around 2005 when the DBR9/C6.R/MC12 had their big debuts and, for example, we only had 35-ish entries for the 24H of Spa with very few GT1's. After that, there was really no interest anymore, unless you count the 'new GT1' Ford and Nissan.


No I don't count those Ford's and Nissan's as real GT1's (although they did look good). I just don't want the era where to start where only street level cars will go on as GT's. With GT3 you almost certainly get the manufactures to enter their Z4 kinda cars (Ford Mustang, Chevy Camero and so you can go on). They look good but I prefer the kinda cars that are from the upper class. GTE still has that kinda rules where you can enter cars like the SRT Viper, Corvette and other brutal cars, but GT3 will almost certainly be the end of that.

But yeah the manufactures definitely to blame for the end of GT1. MC12 as worst example (making 100 cars so race car gets homologated). GTE should be a good base to prevent for that kinda practices.
Author:  Woodski [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Fish88 wrote:
StanV wrote:
I grew up in the GTS/GT1-era as well, and my collection kind of looks similar to yours! But I thought you were just talking about the looks of the car, not the performance. You can't say that this Z4 wouldn't fit nicely with those others in terms of how it looks (and it's the only BMW actually eligible for GT-entry)

I also don't want the LM GT rules to continuously downgrade towards GT3, so I'm fully with you on that. However, you should also 'blame' the manufacturers for this trend because the fact GT1 died is due to a declining interest in developing and investing in more expensive GT1's. I think that trend started around 2005 when the DBR9/C6.R/MC12 had their big debuts and, for example, we only had 35-ish entries for the 24H of Spa with very few GT1's. After that, there was really no interest anymore, unless you count the 'new GT1' Ford and Nissan.


No I don't count those Ford's and Nissan's as real GT1's (although they did look good). I just don't want the era where to start where only street level cars will go on as GT's. With GT3 you almost certainly get the manufactures to enter their Z4 kinda cars (Ford Mustang, Chevy Camero and so you can go on). They look good but I prefer the kinda cars that are from the upper class. GTE still has that kinda rules where you can enter cars like the SRT Viper, Corvette and other brutal cars, but GT3 will almost certainly be the end of that.

But yeah the manufactures definitely to blame for the end of GT1. MC12 as worst example (making 100 cars so race car gets homologated). GTE should be a good base to prevent for that kinda practices.

There have been and still are GT-spec 'Vette's and Vipers...
Author:  fede999 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Oh well, I, for one, would bring back the 97-98 GT1 rules :p

The whole matter is a bit complex. What you call "entry level" cars are effectively the most affordable models on the respective catalogues, but when we're talking about a Gallardo or a 458, we mean 570 hp monsters that are already way more powerful and faster than the street versions of past GT1 cars (a 550 Maranello had 485 hp).
The problem is that today's high-end production sportscars are more seen as a technical proficiency showcase and engineered and built as such. With modern engines and aero studies it's not that hard to push a car well beyond 300 km/h, so the manufacturers focus more on outfitting their top line cars with electronics, traction control, KERS, seamless gearboxes with paddle shifts...you name it.

It goes without saying that developing a racing version of these models would mean stripping them down of their main features, and this isn't viable from a publicity point of view (which I hope you're aware it's the only thing that drives a manufacturer to develop racing cars nowadays, just in case we get carried away by romanticism).
This doesn't apply to American cars, which are still being developed as purebred "muscle cars" already in their street legal versions.

This said, I really think a massive regulation overhaul in ACO-compliant GTs is due. Corvette races a downsized engine, Ferrari an underpowered one but Viper even get invited at Le Mans with their massive 8.4L. That's just not fair.
Author:  Fish88 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
fede999 wrote:
Oh well, I, for one, would bring back the 97-98 GT1 rules :p


That would be pretty awesome. Especially considering Mclaren (P1), Ferrari (F70), Porsche (918) and Lamborghini (will announce something soon) all have some (hybrid) hypercars in their line-up. But that is just dreaming.

Image
Image
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(Ferrari is just a render).
Author:  deggis [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Image



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105611
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/5456 ... ybrid.html

Seems to have a new and much nicer sounding exhaust :thumbsup:

Curiously the wider endplantes are gone... iirc they were not banned.
Author:  F1-FR [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Picture from testing practice.
The new Toy with new headlights.

Image
Author:  Fish88 [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Love the Toyota, too bad they have Davidson.
Author:  Artur Craft [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
deggis wrote:
Curiously the wider endplantes are gone... iirc they were not banned.


I also didn't hear anything about a ban of it, so I expect it to return when the actual racing starts...

and yeah, the sound is awesome :)
Author:  deggis [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Interesting (pretty technical) article regarding the 2014 regulations: http://www.lapsim.nl/news/lapsim-implic ... tions.html

Quote:
Out of curiosity, we used LapSim to analyze the implications of the new 2014 Regulations for Le Mans. Will there still be a race? What kind of power plants are there to expect? Will the ACO achieve what they aim for? You will find the answers in the attached article, published in the february issue of Racecar Engineering.

http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Article ... LapSim.pdf
Author:  F1-FR [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Artur Craft wrote:
deggis wrote:
Curiously the wider endplantes are gone... iirc they were not banned.


I also didn't hear anything about a ban of it, so I expect it to return when the actual racing starts...

and yeah, the sound is awesome :)



We will see endplates just after Le Mans race. ;)
Author:  Artur Craft [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
In Le Mans and Spa they don't look for more downforce but rather for less drag so there I agree but isn't Silverstone before Le Mans too?

I think it is and expect to see it there

@
User avatar
deggis, thanks for that, mate ;)

PS: Shouldn't 2013 be overwritten in the thread's tittle?
Author:  Juihi [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
As well as doing the Porsche Supercup, it looks like Richie Stanaway will be doing the ALMS series with Aston Martin in GTE as well
Author:  Fish88 [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Good Line-Up for Aston-Martin this year!!! Best decision ever to switch back to GT (Prodrive, not Stanways he needs a shot in single seaters), really looking forward to this years race.
Author:  deggis [ Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Quote:
The obstacles that could still prevent Level 5 from committing to the full season include concerns over tyre supply and the sporting regulations.

...

Level 5 has also requested a change in the rules governing minimum driving time to make it easier for Tucker to drive both its cars during a race, which is understood to have so far been declined.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105743

Awww, a crook doesn't get what he wants.
Author:  hedgey666 [ Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 WEC/ALMS/ELMS | GRAND-AM AND ALMS MERGE
Given all the Tucker investigation stuff started years ago, I'm surprised he's still in business. He's either innocent afterall or he covered his tracks so well the authorities are struggling to make their case against him.
Author:  smokyburnout [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 WEC/ALMS/ELMS/AsLMS | THREAD CONTINUES FOR 2013
Trying to keep this in perspective because it's better than watching a 240p 15FPS stream, but Speed is only doing 11 hours of Sebring coverage and the finish will be bumped to tape delay by live Supercross.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... e-streets/
Author:  Juihi [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 WEC/ALMS/ELMS/AsLMS | THREAD CONTINUES FOR 2013
The finish!!!??? 8O 8O 8O that's like the most important part :lol:
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