deggis wrote:
Such a shame that it took a death for such a simple change to be made. How did no one realise that a tree with a bit of metal stuck to it is still a tree?
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
deggis wrote: Such a shame that it took a death for such a simple change to be made. How did no one realise that a tree with a bit of metal stuck to it is still a tree? |
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| Author: | Ian-S [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Knowing how those posts bend so easily, I'd say it won't stop cars hitting that tree if the circumstances are right. One day someone might remember why the wooden posts circuits used to use were 10x thicker. |
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| Author: | ellis [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Schumifan wrote: Such a shame that it took a death for such a simple change to be made. How did no one realise that a tree with a bit of metal stuck to it is still a tree? Because armco isn't meant to bend. It's the fact LM armco sucks that causes it. Armco is meant to keep the car within the circuit, not absorb impacts. Had the armco been better quality then we'd have not seen Allans death. |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
ellis wrote: Schumifan wrote: Such a shame that it took a death for such a simple change to be made. How did no one realise that a tree with a bit of metal stuck to it is still a tree? Because armco isn't meant to bend. It's the fact LM armco sucks that causes it. Armco is meant to keep the car within the circuit, not absorb impacts. Had the armco been better quality then we'd have not seen Allans death. There's actually a video that demonstrates this *really* well, from back in the 70s or 80s when it was relatively new technology. A row of single-height Armco successfully trapped a 17-ton lorry and prevented it from running across. If the technology was sufficiently good that long ago, I don't understand how they managed to get it so wrong here... |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
This isn't the video I meant, but you get the idea: That's a single rail of barrier, and a lorry which probably weighed in the order of 25 tons. |
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Right, but the armco still gives a little bit in that video. It wouldn't if you plonked a dirty great tree directly behind it. |
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| Author: | ellis [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Schumifan wrote: Right, but the armco still gives a little bit in that video. It wouldn't if you plonked a dirty great tree directly behind it. Yeah, it does. But it's a MASSIVE lorry, it's a standard single railed UK barrier, and that is designed to go out on normal roads cheaply. Here we are at Le Mans, using the same spec barriers for decades, with cars that costs $100m...and the armco is damaged in even minor hits? It's pretty rare to get a 3 hour yellow flag, or 3 hour red flag, to repair a barrier. Yet at Le Mans it's common. And it wasn't just because Allan had a large impact either - there have been some very minor offs where a car noses a barrier and then it all needs rebuilt. Le Mans seems to be the only place that struggles with this. |
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Oh I'm not denying that the Le Mans armco is useless - it clearly is. But useless armco or not, if it hadn't been completely flush to the line of trees behind it, I don't think Allan would have died. The way they positioned it, it may as well not have been there at all. |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
ellis wrote: Schumifan wrote: Right, but the armco still gives a little bit in that video. It wouldn't if you plonked a dirty great tree directly behind it. Yeah, it does. But it's a MASSIVE lorry, it's a standard single railed UK barrier, and that is designed to go out on normal roads cheaply. Here we are at Le Mans, using the same spec barriers for decades, with cars that costs $100m...and the armco is damaged in even minor hits? Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The difference in mass is huge, and yet the way the barrier reacts is comparable. That reflects seriously badly on the ACO. Schumifan - the thing is, had the Armco been up to a decent standard, it should have absorbed a lot more of the energy of the impact. We can't be sure how different the outcome would be, but we can be reasonably certain the forces involved would be changed. |
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| Author: | Gaara [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
I don't remember the armco being really this bad before the lengthy repair after Rocky's accident in '11. It seems as though its worse now. |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Is it up all year round on the Mulsanne? I wonder if being exposed to traffic all the time takes its toll in a way that weekend race activity does not. |
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| Author: | Wreckinturn4 [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
 http://novafile.com/k51rtqfi4zwn I came across this today. It has some great articles and pictures (Aston at Le Mans stuff starts on page 34 of the pdf) |
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| Author: | deggis [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Wreckinturn4 wrote: http://novafile.com/k51rtqfi4zwn I came across this today. It has some great articles and pictures (Aston at Le Mans stuff starts on page 34 of the pdf) "This file can only be downloaded by Premium Members" |
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| Author: | deggis [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Gaara wrote: I don't remember the armco being really this bad before the lengthy repair after Rocky's accident in '11. It seems as though its worse now. There was some theory an year ago that the ground was unusually wet, which let the barrier poles or whatever they're called to bend more. Would explain why every single hit to the barriers seemed to cause lengthy repairs. And then maybe in addition some over-causion due to the earlier event. More tarmac creeping in :| (esses) |
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| Author: | Wreckinturn4 [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
deggis wrote: Wreckinturn4 wrote: http://novafile.com/k51rtqfi4zwn I came across this today. It has some great articles and pictures (Aston at Le Mans stuff starts on page 34 of the pdf) "This file can only be downloaded by Premium Members" dunno what happened, I was able to download it earlier as a free user. I can reupload it to another site if there's interest link: https://mega.co.nz/#!RR8R2IrL!Pzm_K07_U ... 2nEXkaNzUo |
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| Author: | EsbenT [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Shots fired! Spoiler: |
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| Author: | Juihi [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
| Author: | Ian-S [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Gaara wrote: I don't remember the armco being really this bad before the lengthy repair after Rocky's accident in '11. It seems as though its worse now. It's probably all to do with money, the Armco tracks seem to use now, and it's not just Le Mans, MSV use it too, seems a lot thinner and lighter, so it's probably a lot cheaper, you can save a lot of money by buying the cheaper stuff. You could see the diffence when they were having to do barrier repairs during the night a couple of years ago, one guy was able to carry the Armco strip by himself, you try doing that with the old style Armco, you'd give yourself a hernia in no time. Those thin posts don't help either, they are the equivilent of trying to hold up your garden fence with a match stick. |
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| Author: | StanV [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
V1 of the Spotter Guide: http://www.spotterguides.com/portfolio/2014-le-mans/ |
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Le Mans '14 | A three-horse race |
Ian-S wrote: MSV use it too This explains why cars have a tendency to fly out of the circuit boundaries at Brands then... |
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