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The drivers just need to have more respect for each other on these tracks. Think twice before making a move like Wicken's or Sato's. This is not some street course where you'll just gently thump the tyre wall after your kamikaze move backfires.

In the old days, even tough bravehearts like Foyt would say they feared guys that had no fear.

Suddenly Cunningham. I can do the math for ya, Wadey-boy. Your DNF rate over the last 8 seasons is 40%. Oh it was only 5 races, and you haven't raced in Indycar in 7 years? Oh that's so sad :C

And since Alex Lloyd chimed in, yours is at 30% over those 10 years too, so, yeah. Not a lot of room to talk, these two.

Takumakaze happens, you just have to face the fact that it is inevitable and can strike at any time, you just have to weather the storm.

Watching Sato's on-board, his move doesn't look particularly reckless at all. It's a shame we don't have an aerial view. He could be at fault, but it's fine margins.

The more I watch all the onboards, the more I'm feeling sorry for Sato. Rossi definitely moves up the track a little, and Ryan is squeezing him from the other side.

No doubt the drivers gotta have more respect for each other, it's something that has slowly degraded across most of motorsport. In my opinion, as I've said in many other threads - I feel the respect factor isn't taught properly on the lower levels anymore, and they get a arbitary sense that they are superman - then they see their heroes doing stupid shit on the TV it makes it much worse. While several older veterans come from the "race how you want to be raced" mantra - so when it happens to them - they will throw it right back.

I feel IndyCar was letting the inmates run the asylum with how bunched up the start was though - knowing that Turn 1 is the best chance for passing & that turn #2 was much more weathered than previous years. Regardless if it's Pocono, Texas or any other superspeedway oval - they need to have the mandated start gaps like they do at Indy

In terms of the wreck itself: part of me says it's Sato - some of me says it's a mixture of him & RHR - and then another part says it's a racing deal. A aerial or drone view would be nice The TV cameras make you think it's Sato fully, however his onboard shows that he was trying to keep it straight despite a slight twitch to the left.

With that said, in terms of Taku - it's always a stupid move to attempt 3 wide on lap #1 going into the tunnel turn (which has caught out several drivers with the bumps). I understand why most were doing this (hard to pass) - but it's a 500 mile race with alot of time to go.

I'd have to agree with @

KingOfChins opinion following Sato's onboard video tweet on the incident (on a other discord) - his quote "That makes it look a lot less slam dunk than it did from the other onboards and the head on shot. Almost like he caught Rossi with the LR because he forgot the back is toed"

I do think the race officials need to set a precedent on penalties tho

Practice maybe?

These drivers needs to respect others more and be less aggressive on lap 1 out of 200. They rarely do bonehead moves at Indy but at Pocono they go crazy because it's apparently too difficult to pass and they need to save fuel.

So the solution I think should help is that IndyCar should tweak The aeropackage for Pocono to help overtaking and reduce fuel mileage runs. The idea of banning this track is stupid. Raise the T2 wall too, since there's no grandstand over there. And maybe add that Paul Ricard's high friction tarmac on the inside run off areas on the two back straights.


How's Rosenqvist doing, btw?

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

I'd also probably believe Sato more had he not said he thought he was clear when he moved down.

Hinch actually backed out of heading into a three wide situation and instead got caught up in someone elses mistake.

Rosenqvist had some back pain and a headache but was given an all clear. He said it would all clear up in a couple of days.

I see where you're going with the high friction surface on the inside, the biggest problem in that crash was the fact that they slid back up onto the track. If that hadn't happened, Rosenqvist and the others would have been fine. But I'm still not entirely convinced Paul Ricards high grip runoff is all that effective.

Lloyd claimed it was mid-race on a restart in a second tweet


and then claimed after Motegi - which had to be Homestead (or in the 2011 season)

Why did Pocono decide to move the inside wall so much closer to the track anyway? I understand that the safety needed upgrading, and that the old inside wall could still be brutal (Elliott Sadler/Steve Park), but having it so close to the track is just asking cars to be fired back into the racing line. (It is actually closer, isn't it? Or am I remembering it wrong?).

the main problem is how the fence is put together in turn 2, and what they are using to repair it when it's been tore up. That's the most sketchy part right now IMO, and about caused a boycott last year after Wicky as the drivers were pissed.

I think the track should stay as well, but improvements are needed

In terms of the runoff, it's very narrow across the back end - the some of the narrowest on the circuit for a 2+ mile superspeedway - partly because NASCAR begged them to narrow it up after Sadler's crash. Was originally 95 feet (max), now it's between 30 and 38 feet - it's like half of the runoff that IMS has (even tho it doesn't look it by any means on TV)

to compare with other 2.0+ mile tracks on the back straights - here's the amount of asphalt & grass runoff. Grass is much more sketchy but better than shooting cars back on the track (not counting the pit straights, as Pocono is actually the safer one of the bunch - given both Fontana & Michigan has a pit wall that juts out close on exit, IMS is very narrow & sketchy for those in the pits)

Pocono: 30 feet
Indy: 60 feet
Fontana: 155 feet
Michigan: 162 feet

Texas World, being a clone of Michigan was also 155 to 160 feet, no idea on Ontario as imagery doesn't go back farther than 1994

Lausitzring has anywhere from 50 feet in the tight spots, to over 300 feet in the open areas for the road course

Once again idiots trying to win on lap 1 wrecked the race as a lot of good cars were destroyed.

That wreck was mostly Sato but there's a fair amount of stupid there to go around.

The race after was a freight train. We left at lap 110 as those clouds made it clear we didn't have much longer to go and it was a long walk to the car. The shame of it all is that was the biggest crowd they've had I think and the worst race of the six.

The drive home sucked. Two and a half hours dodging idiots on the highway in torrential rain.

I hope they come back. I also hope Indycar figures out a way to allow them to race.

The last time Pocono was booted from the Indycar schedule, it was because then-owner Doc Mattioli wouldn't make necessary safety changes to accommodate the Indy cars... along with certain political shenanigans. And to be fair, from what I've read, the Indycar races at Pocono in the 1980s were money-losers, it was the stock car races that were profitable at Pocono.

If Pocono gets booted, it will be for this reason as well -- well, not politics (it seems like the current owners get along with Indycar management), but more economics than anything else. Certainly not just because a couple of big accidents happened. The grandstands honestly didn't look terribly full to me (not Fontana level emptiness, it wasn't *too* bad, but still, I doubt Pocono is going to want to do any major safety changes for the attendance they got).

From my perspective, a big problem with the super-speedways (as a consumer) is that many of the support series aren't going to be able to tag along. I think the only support for Pocono was a vintage Indy exhibition, right? A place like Road America in contrast has 5 support series, so there is pretty much constant racing throughout the weekend.

What they should have done with the backstretch is put that Paul Ricard abrasive stuff down to slow the cars down

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I believe their reasoning was that the closer the wall is to the racetrack, the less chance a spinning car has to turn at a steeper angle toward the wall. Think about the hard hits we've seen on the inside wall at Daytona and Talladega from where a car starts spinning and the further off the track it gets, the sharper the angle gets (Danica's done this like a dozen times, so just remember any of her crashes). That being said, moving the inside wall closer means you're moving faster and you're also more likely to get bounced back into traffic, so it's a tradeoff.

I think it's the Singapore Grand Prix 2017/Hockenheim Grand Prix 2003 moment for Indycar, only at 200mph and with Sato in the Vettel/Ralf role

Meanwhile, it's annoying the debate on Pocano's future is framed around the safety aspects and the fact the race was a snoozer, and often is, isn't really being talked about
Aside from the 3 laps around the pit windows when they were on cold tyres, there wasn't much in the way of overtaking. And Power was pulling away at around a second a lap at the time of the yellow so it's not like we were due for a barnstorming finish either

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

Had to dig up those crashes you mentioned.







Mother of God that inside wall "design" in Elliott Sadler's crash. And it's from 2010!

Judging by google maps picture, they could easily widen the run off area there. And fix that fencing and T2 wall.

But changing that wall alone is not as simple as it might sound.

By the look of it, Indianapolis Motor Speedway has same wall height.




And Texas, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Fontana...








Chicagoland, Homestead and Gateway seems to be a bit different, but that wall doesn't stop the car from hitting the fence either. Safer Barrier seems to have standard height of 5 layers on all of those tracks.





So. You make Pocono to raise the T2 wall, you have to make every other oval. Raising the Safer Barrier alone is expensive enough and you'd have to nearly double the height to even scratch the issue properly.

I think it's easier and cheaper for IndyCar to find a way to keep the car grounded and keep close racing possible through the race, not just with cold tires in the beginning of the stint or with new vs. worn tires during pit cycles.

Sigh, increase the drag coefficient without increasing the downforce and add more horsepower. Which is what next gen cars are about, right?

It's easy to blame Pocono, but the real issue is how drivers are taking the starts and not just Sato. RHR and Rossi both did the same thing there. Sure, Sato was the third driver to make it 3 wide, but both RHR and Rossi should know that you can't move around so much and so fast at that point of the track.

Maybe T2 at Pocono looks "safer" than T1 or T3 at Indy because the lack of grandstand in that Tunnel Turn? It kinda looks more roomy and not so menacing when you're not facing a crowd but blue skies and some green leafs far away behind the fence.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

Yeah there wasn't alot of passing but I thought the race was ok once they got back going - alot of the teams were in fuel save mode like Indy until they realized rain was coming. Pocono is always harder to pass by default.

I do think the racing at Pocono would be better if they grinded the bumps down in a couple spots, drivers were really struggling this weekend. Another thing to remember is that only 2 hours of practice gives the teams only so much time to get a proper setup on the car - and in someways they are lucky they even had that much, last year had less & race practice was supposed to be like 1 hour after qualy too. Expected from the start that it would be more of a strategy race rather than on-track passing here.

Something I saw on Atlas that ilustrates the relative movement of the three cars very well. Look at the black stripe in the centre of the track and where Rossi and RHR are in relation to it.

Then compare it with Sato's movement away from the stripe on the left.

No-one's to blame - Rossi is clearly trying to follow Dixon and RHR is trying to get into a more appropriate line for the corner (probably very aware of what happened when he was the car on the outside and another driver was sticking stubbornly to the inside line).

Shit happens. Just spread them out at the start or make it single file.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.