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2015 Pocono 500
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=9369		 Page 34 of 34
Author:  Beezle [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
I always hesitated to become one... but that story does it. I will be one.
Author:  Matthiasw [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
StefMeister wrote:
Such sad news, RIP Justin :cry:


More geared for F1 but relevant here given the circumstances is that the FIA will be testing a new design for closed cockpits next months, Rather than a canopy they are going for something like this:

Image


whats the deal there, you have two bars, that keep tires away but smaller objects fly though or is there a window between the bars and the cockpit?!
Author:  alex1369 [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Id rather then choose fighter jet cockpit than this
Author:  Cheeveer [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Picked up my donor card today. Thanks for the inspiration Justin.
Author:  Gaara [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
dicksplaash wrote:
Picked up my donor card today. Thanks for the inspiration Justin.


Signed up last night.
Author:  NVirkkula [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Wow. There's definitely a bright silver lining on this dark cloud.


In Finland the law is the opposite for organ donating. You have to fill the document if you don't want your organs to be used. I'm not going to sign that for sure.
Author:  thedoctor46 [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
StefMeister wrote:
Image


Since you posted this and we have had tragedy in both series within a few weeks.....

So with this from my non expert view wouldn't have helped Surtees, or Wilson as the objects looked to be heading down onto the helmet, obviously with forward motion also.

If no windscreen not much help for Massa either as the spring would have likely gone thru the gap.

May have helped Jules if it could absorb enough energy to make the impact on the helmet less.


I get it they want and need to be seen to be doing something in regard to safety after the last month, but I hope we don't get some knee jerk reactions just to look like that have done something.
I don't wanna see the cockpit equivalent 1994 F1 track revisions with Chicanes everywhere!

Sad as these crashes have been for our sport, I hope the people in charge take time to think about the changes they will make in all series. They were both freak accidents that are hard to prepare for something has to be done , but please give us a reasonable help not a crazy one!
Author:  electrodevo [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
I would guess that tethers for large parts are more of the "option in play" than canopies at the moment.

Part of the reason why I think we've seen a little bit more problems with parts hitting drivers in open wheel, is actually a result of a mostly good thing. Parts now tend to break away from cars in a wreck these days, dissipating energy from the driver. You watch 1980s Indy car races, in crashes the cars didn't breakaway so much; they crumpled and folded instead. Together with the not-so-soft walls (even Armco on say the Michigan back straightaway), you had far more broken bones and quite a bit worse with crashes back in those days.

As recently as the mid to late 1990s, a crash that sent Sage into the wall nose first as hard as he did probably would have resulted in some serious foot and leg injuries.

The flip side is that large parts breaking away (nose cones, rear pods) kind of created the issue we saw here. A further issue is if a nose cone or rear pod gets in the stands... that would not be good at all. So I would think tethers and/or other engineering is needed to ensure very large parts don't go flying into the air, at least as much as possible.

As far as partial or complete canopies, that's a possibility, but I imagine it will take a lot more design discussion. I think the FIA has thought about canopies ever since Massa's crash. The thing I see with canopies, is to do it right, it would have to be a complete *system*, with ventilation, rain wipers, probably some emergency fire protection, quick release ability for driver access... It's far beyond plopping a cover over a driver and calling it a day. Ultimately, I think a canopy would be safer (and wouldn't be bad looking at all) but it's not a solution that will happen overnight.
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
thedoctor46 wrote:
StefMeister wrote:
Image


Since you posted this and we have had tragedy in both series within a few weeks.....

So with this from my non expert view wouldn't have helped Surtees, or Wilson as the objects looked to be heading down onto the helmet, obviously with forward motion also.

If no windscreen not much help for Massa either as the spring would have likely gone thru the gap.

May have helped Jules if it could absorb enough energy to make the impact on the helmet less.


I get it they want and need to be seen to be doing something in regard to safety after the last month, but I hope we don't get some knee jerk reactions just to look like that have done something.
I don't wanna see the cockpit equivalent 1994 F1 track revisions with Chicanes everywhere!

Sad as these crashes have been for our sport, I hope the people in charge take time to think about the changes they will make in all series. They were both freak accidents that are hard to prepare for something has to be done , but please give us a reasonable help not a crazy one!


Looking at it from a fairly simplistic viewpoint, this particular solution would have probably prevented several fatalities:

- For Senna, most of the wheel and suspension would have been deflected to one side. Maybe some suspension would have still contacted the helmet, but maybe not.
- Because of the relatively large open area, the spring that hit Massa may well have still found a way through.
- Comparing the gaps again to the size of a wheel, a sufficiently strong version of this probably would have saved Surtees' life.
- Again a strength question, but this device could have taken the initial impact which killed Dan Wheldon, even if it was destroyed in the process. IndyCar's report said there was only a single fence post impact.
- Again hard to say for sure, but I don't see how something as big as a nosecone could have reached Justin Wilson through this. Maybe if it went directly down, but I don't believe it did in this case.

It's only a concept, of course, but this one does seem to tick a lot of the good boxes and less of the bad ones compared to a canopy. I'll be interested to see the test results.
Author:  Whofan [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Gaara wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:
Picked up my donor card today. Thanks for the inspiration Justin.


Signed up last night.



Just signed up too. If you can't be inspired by Justin's story to do it then you never will. Its a no-brainer tbh
Author:  Beezle [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Whofan wrote:
Gaara wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:
Picked up my donor card today. Thanks for the inspiration Justin.


Signed up last night.



Just signed up too. If you can't be inspired by Justin's story to do it then you never will. Its a no-brainer tbh


We could start something in Facebook.
Become a donor for Justin
Author:  Omega [ Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
NVirkkula wrote:
In Finland the law is the opposite for organ donating. You have to fill the document if you don't want your organs to be used. I'm not going to sign that for sure.

Same in Belgium
Author:  Neil [ Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Whofan wrote:
Gaara wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:
Picked up my donor card today. Thanks for the inspiration Justin.


Signed up last night.



Just signed up too. If you can't be inspired by Justin's story to do it then you never will. Its a no-brainer tbh


Registered.
Author:  cArmAkAze [ Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Glad to see so many people changing lives in the future. The people who may one day have their lives changed because of you all will never know it, but they owe it to Justin Wilson and his inspiration.
Author:  cArmAkAze [ Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Just to lighten the mood a bit, every time I think of organ donation, I can't help but think of this:
Author:  Woodski [ Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Run a windscreen with a provision for a wiper in it..kinda like an LMP2 car but without the rest of the roof.
Image
Extend it down the nose and you're golden.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Pocono 500
Omega wrote:
NVirkkula wrote:
In Finland the law is the opposite for organ donating. You have to fill the document if you don't want your organs to be used. I'm not going to sign that for sure.

Same in Belgium

I which it was the same in France. Even if I have a card, I need to convince the family members mentioned on it to accept it, and they will get the final word. It's annoying because they don't like to talk about these subjects, and I can't trust them on the issue as they don't sound entirely convinced.

Donating organs is a no-brainer. It doesn't make you a "hero", it just makes you a "not a selfish asshole", unlike anybody who explicitly clings to his useless flesh at the expense of others it can save.
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