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 Post subject: BTCC Nostalgia Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:25 pm 
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In the general (2012) BTCC discussion thread there has been much talk about the history of the BTCC... SecretAgentHarvick instigated it and thanks to all you knowledgeable guys who came up with the clips and answers.. please carry on!
Ive copied some of the posts across to here.

SecretAgentHarvick wrote:
Watching these races on SPEED during this winter break, I have fallen in love with this series... and since I don't know anywhere else to pose these questions, I will pose them here.
1. Is there usually anyway to watch these races live on stream or some other method in the states, and if not, how can I download current and past races? I think I have checked darcy's site and didn't have any luck there.
2. What's some of the history of the series... biggest crashes? Best races? Best finishes, etc.?
3. What track is the Yay Tree on and what is the story behind it?
Thanks.

phil1993 wrote:
1. There are usually Justin TV streams, but we have a few over here http://www.f1zone.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=6771
2. The 1992 finale is often cited as legendary, the race involving Mansell too
3. Snetterton; in 2009 we were all watching the races here and someone (I think codename_47) said something like 'that tree looks like it's applauding the action' and thats how it started.

kals wrote:
I would recommend you find copies of the season reviews, if you have access to RFM or another torrent site. 1998 is one of the finest seasons, 1992 also.
As for biggest crashes I would say:
- 1992 TOCA shoot out, Keith O'dor
- 1993 TOCA shoot out, Nigel Mansell
- 1994 British GP support race @
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silverstone
, half the field
- 1995 Oulton Park, Richard Kaye
- 1996 Oulton Park, Kelvin Burt
- 1996 Brand Hatch (final round), half the field
That's all I can think of right now.

kals wrote:
Aaron Slight had a couple of big crashes at Donington Park, neither were caught on camera though. First was in 1997 at the TT when making his BTCC debut in a works Honda Accord, which was post season and not televised (if I remember correctly). The next was at the final round in 2002 when he was fighting for the indy title in a Barwell Vauxhall Astra Coupe.

RtN wrote:
I will add 3 more;
- 1995 Thruxton, Charlie Cox
- 2000 Brands Hatch, James Thompson
- 2000 Croft, Vincent Radermacker

kals wrote:
[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4WguwkhGWU[/youtubeidiot]
From 7:16, I never knew there were highlights broadcast by BBC. Unfortunately this doesn't include Slight's crash. It's also on the video as the TOCA shoot out but it was the TT or the International Invitational.

kals wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Didn't Matt Neal have an enormous one at Paddock Hill bend one year after a tag from Collard? 2006 was it?

Correct, race three. It was a retaliation for Neal doing his standard bump and pass.
Adding to the list:
1995 - Brands Hatch, Cleland in both races
1997 - Silverstone, Lee Brookes
1999 - Silverstone, Rickard Rydell

RtN wrote:
There's a good rear-facing onboard shot from the car in front which captures the impact well.
EDIT: At 3:45.

Also note Plato\Tarquini as a sizeable off at the beginning of the video.

kals wrote:
And then there was Robb Gravett's sizeable shurt at Thuxton in 1989

Also, Lawrence Bristow (1991) and David Leslie (1995) both had big accidents at Oulton Park by going off and striking the barrier on the inside of the Shell Oils hairpin.

amq55 wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:
Anyone have Top Gear's bit on BTCC from a few years ago? They showed a lot of crashes then, as to why it was their favorite series.


kals wrote:
Ryano wrote:
On the theme of big crashes, didnt Rydell have a huge crash in the wet, possibly at Oulton (1996?)

That was Kelvin Burt and already mentioned.
Ryano wrote:
Russell Spence went over the fence (well, more like through and over it) at Oulton in 1999

Good memory, there's a good onboard shot from Menu's car (I think) of Spence going over the barrier.
EDIT - found it...
[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcCYDs3VXk4[/youtubeidiot]

danny87 wrote:
If its not been mentioned, Kelvin Burts crash at Oulton Park.

Panachski wrote:
Rydell's crash @ Snetterton is at the 6:05 mark with replays at 6:39, he missed the ambulance by inches

Slam wrote:
Ryano wrote:
All I can remember from footage I've seen in the past is a camera, possibly rear facing, cutting out as he rolls over and Murray Walker shouting 'Rickard Rydells in REAL trouble'.
In the flip list the only one involving Rydell is down as
1995: Rickard Rydell, Volvo 850, Brands Hatch - flip in race

Yeah that was that really wet meeting on the Brands Hatch GP circuit. Rydell's brakes failes as he went into Hawthornes. Went into the barriers backwards and rolled over. I think there was just an onboard and aftermath of that one. I'm pretty sure Sugden rolled his Toyota at Clearways in the same race. (Also missed by the trackside cameras) It was a pretty chaotic meeting.

hedgey666 wrote:
All these videos (CLASSIC days, btw - we'll never have a BTCC as good as it was in the mid 90s again) reminded me of the Radisich/Watts crash at Brands - it could have been a horrific result.
[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJstMMTugDY[/youtubeidiot]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:22 am 
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On the subject of great races:









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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:36 am 
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pimmy wrote:
On the subject of great races:


LOL, I wondered how long it would be before one of my BTCC caps got onto Youtube


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:41 am 
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Ah typical Platoness


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:28 am 
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I was wondering, what are people's favourite BTCC seasons, and why?

Mine are 1995, 1998, 2008.

1995: This was a really competitive year. You couldn't really seperate the Vauxhall Cavaliers, Volvo 850s and Renault Lagunas at the front. Cleland, Rydell and Menu each could have won the championship.

1998: This is possibly the last great season before the BTCC headed towards a bit of a downfall (IMO). 8 works teams. I think a couple of manufacturers pulled out at the end of the year, then more after 1999. Great standard of drivers. Great rivalry between Rydell and Reid for the title. (I loved those silver/blue S40's!). Plus my favourite game Toca 2 was based on this season!

2008: Personally I went to quite a few races this season after I bought my DSLR camera. Some crazy weather (Croft, Rockingham, anybody?) and some cracking races. Works Vauxhall Vectras, Seat Leons, Mat Jackson in his white BMW, the Halfords Civics, the RAC BMWs, Motorbase BMWs. I think this was a bit of a high water mark in recent years before works teams and big sponsors started dropped out.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:37 am 
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2009. We had some great battles that year, including the now infamous Snetterton round, as well as a tight title battle that could have gone either way at the finale.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:34 am 
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1998 was an awesome season for BTCC and probably one of the last seasons I took a real interest in. Lots of works support, great drivers, great racing and a great game based off it!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:36 am 
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Also, I've enabled Quick Reply for this forum, no-one mentioned it didn't work.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:03 pm 
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1991 - My first year truly following the series. The M3s were awesome and the closeness of the racing kept me enthralled
1992 - A see-sawing battle and that finale. After the first few rounds no-one of sound mind would have put money on BMW winning again
1998 - Just an immense season throughout. So many works teams. Amazing races. 11 different winners. And the good and bad of Mansell
2009 - A tight battle throughout, race 3 at Rockingham and a highly emotional end to the season


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
Ah typical Platoness

Typical Matt Neal too ;) .

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:33 pm 
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pimmy wrote:
Gaara wrote:
Ah typical Platoness

Typical Matt Neal too ;) .


Ah yes, but you see there is a difference between them. Neal just does enough to unsettle the car but allow them to carry on. He stuck his nose in there and dared Plato to close the door.

Plato just flat out took revenge and put two innocent parties out of the race and subsequently the final race as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
pimmy wrote:
Gaara wrote:
Ah typical Platoness

Typical Matt Neal too ;) .


Ah yes, but you see there is a difference between them. Neal just does enough to unsettle the car but allow them to carry on. He stuck his nose in there and dared Plato to close the door.

Plato just flat out took revenge and put two innocent parties out of the race and subsequently the final race as well.

Plato had already started turning into the corner before Neal went to the inside. The move was never on.

As for favourite seasons, 1999 was the first season I watched, so I've always had a soft spot for it.

1993 was a season of two halves. The first half was dominated by BMW, but the second was very unpredictable and saw five drivers take their maiden wins.

1994 offered some fantastic racing with ten works teams, the Volvo estate and was the last year that the cars truly resembled their road-going counterparts.

1998 goes without saying. The start of that year alone sums it up for me: Five races won by five different drivers, driving for five different teams, in five different makes of car. Not to mention the two races that I posted earlier.

2004 had that incredibly close championship battle, great racing and was the year I started attending events.

2006 had some very memorable events for me, Thruxton in particular. Turkington had problems at the start of race 1 and must have dropped about 20 seconds behind everyone else. He then proceeded to drive every lap like a qualifying lap and ended up with a points finish. Just hearing that car on full throttle coming up to the chicane and seeing him brake at the last possible moment for lap after lap was excellent. That race also had a fantastic scrap between Adam Jones & Martyn Bell that went on for a few laps. Then later in the day Dave Pinkney put in a stunning drive from the back of the grid to finish 4th with the whole crowd cheering him on. Brilliant stuff.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:50 pm 
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pimmy wrote:
Gaara wrote:
Ah yes, but you see there is a difference between them. Neal just does enough to unsettle the car but allow them to carry on. He stuck his nose in there and dared Plato to close the door.

Plato just flat out took revenge and put two innocent parties out of the race and subsequently the final race as well.

Plato had already started turning into the corner before Neal went to the inside. The move was never on.


I agree. But it's pretty standard for people to jump on Plato and blatantly ignore / commend what Neal does. They're both as bad (and good) as each other and should be cast in the same light.

pimmy wrote:
1993 was a season of two halves. The first half was dominated by BMW, but the second was very unpredictable and saw five drivers take their maiden wins.


I'd never even looked at 1993 this way before, having been at a fair few of the races and watched the season review over and over again.

There were six new winners in 1993, Winklehock in the first half and then O'dor, Bailey, Radisich, Leslie and Menu in the latter part. Two of those drivers took their first and only wins in the BTCC.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:51 pm 
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When it comes to nostalgia there's only one thing I want to say(though I'd say its a bit harsh to consider Matt Neal as bad as Plato, mind you its only really on this forum Plato gets his just desserts, everywhere else seems to be the Plato fanboy club merely because of his "superstar" status....gimme a break!)

People look back on the Super Touring era with far too much rose tinted glasses.
What that era had was good looking cars and great editing.
Yes, there were some classic racing, but as soon as Alfa turned up with wings on their cars the racing went downhill.
People who went to the races live back them seemed to moan about their lack of excitement and it was only the BBC Grandstand editing (and Murray!) that made the races seem exciting, apparently.

I also disagree with what seems to be the majority opinion of other forums that Manufacturers are good for the series.
I know it comes across as a bit Max Mosely, but manufacturers are only in the series to sell cars and as soon as their interests change or they have a new board come in, they're gone again. They're not good for the long term stability of the series.

That's why I think the BTCC has it about right atm. Lots of well funded independent teams.
The only real issue is the draw of the WTCC, the lure of which sometimes lures some teams and drivers away from the championship before they realise it isn't all that great paying a lot more to race in a less competitive series.

But my point is, if Super Touring had stuck around we'd be moaning about the racing more than we do about the DTM :p


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:20 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
People look back on the Super Touring era with far too much rose tinted glasses.
What that era had was good looking cars and great editing.
Yes, there were some classic racing, but as soon as Alfa turned up with wings on their cars the racing went downhill.
People who went to the races live back them seemed to moan about their lack of excitement and it was only the BBC Grandstand editing (and Murray!) that made the races seem exciting, apparently.

If the FIA hadn't been their typically spineless selves then it wouldn't have been a problem. Aero should have been banned, but that wouldn't have fitted in with their constant pandering to manufacturers.

codename_47 wrote:
I also disagree with what seems to be the majority opinion of other forums that Manufacturers are good for the series.
I know it comes across as a bit Max Mosely, but manufacturers are only in the series to sell cars and as soon as their interests change or they have a new board come in, they're gone again. They're not good for the long term stability of the series.

I agree. Whilst it's nice to have a lot of manufacturers to add prestige to the championship, having too many involved just pushes costs through the roof. Ford's budget for the 2000 season was £6 million! I think five manufacturers is plenty.

codename_47 wrote:
That's why I think the BTCC has it about right atm. Lots of well funded independent teams.

Exactly. The type of entry we have now is no different from the type of entry we had from the 50s through to the early 90s, a few works teams and a load of privateers. What people don't seem to realise is that the 90s were the exception rather than the rule. I always see posts on other forums saying that today's drivers are just a bunch of club racers; of course they are! Where do people expect drivers to come from? Even the so-called "Superstars of the 90s" were nobodies at one point.

codename_47 wrote:
The only real issue is the draw of the WTCC, the lure of which sometimes lures some teams and drivers away from the championship before they realise it isn't all that great paying a lot more to race in a less competitive series.

To be fair the WTCC costs about the same to compete in as the BTCC, the cost of most of the travel and (I think) accomodation is subsidised. It's just that the new engines are more expensive than the old ones.

Last season was more competitive than the BTCC in 2001, although only slightly. The reason the series is in the state that it is is because of the aforementioned pandering. If the manufacturers hadn't all been given what they wanted, to the annoyance of the rest, then they wouldn't have left. The WTCC has the potential to be a great series, it just isn't being run properly.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:34 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
When it comes to nostalgia there's only one thing I want to say(though I'd say its a bit harsh to consider Matt Neal as bad as Plato, mind you its only really on this forum Plato gets his just desserts, everywhere else seems to be the Plato fanboy club merely because of his "superstar" status....gimme a break!)


I'd love to take a peek into how your mind works. I'm sure it would extremely entertaining (and a little disturbing) :p :thumbsup:

codename_47 wrote:
People look back on the Super Touring era with far too much rose tinted glasses.
What that era had was good looking cars and great editing.
Yes, there were some classic racing, but as soon as Alfa turned up with wings on their cars the racing went downhill.
People who went to the races live back them seemed to moan about their lack of excitement and it was only the BBC Grandstand editing (and Murray!) that made the races seem exciting, apparently.


It seemed the races that were boring were more often the ones televised live. The races I went to throughout the 90's were often highly exciting. What you need to remember is that today's races are much shorter compared to the Super Touring era and in my opinion dumbed down for the casual TV viewer and trackside fan. The compact nature of the races today means drivers will try extra harder to get a position or hold a position and in turn will create a more aggressive / exciting looking sport.

codename_47 wrote:
I also disagree with what seems to be the majority opinion of other forums that Manufacturers are good for the series.

That's why I think the BTCC has it about right atm. Lots of well funded independent teams.

But my point is, if Super Touring had stuck around we'd be moaning about the racing more than we do about the DTM :p


Absolutely. The sport should be about specialist engineering firms building and running their own versions of readily (and cheaply) available cars. Manufacturers are good for the sport but only in small numbers.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:55 am 
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kals wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
When it comes to nostalgia there's only one thing I want to say(though I'd say its a bit harsh to consider Matt Neal as bad as Plato, mind you its only really on this forum Plato gets his just desserts, everywhere else seems to be the Plato fanboy club merely because of his "superstar" status....gimme a break!)


I'd love to take a peek into how your mind works. I'm sure it would extremely entertaining (and a little disturbing) :p :thumbsup:

codename_47 wrote:
People look back on the Super Touring era with far too much rose tinted glasses.
What that era had was good looking cars and great editing.
Yes, there were some classic racing, but as soon as Alfa turned up with wings on their cars the racing went downhill.
People who went to the races live back them seemed to moan about their lack of excitement and it was only the BBC Grandstand editing (and Murray!) that made the races seem exciting, apparently.


It seemed the races that were boring were more often the ones televised live. The races I went to throughout the 90's were often highly exciting. What you need to remember is that today's races are much shorter compared to the Super Touring era and in my opinion dumbed down for the casual TV viewer and trackside fan. The compact nature of the races today means drivers will try extra harder to get a position or hold a position and in turn will create a more aggressive / exciting looking sport.


Yeah but they also added pit stops in the mid 90s and that never makes the racing MORE exciting :p

The format we have now is perfect imo. 3 races means you get the right amount of touring car action for your money without having to screw with the format, add pit stops etc.

There's really very little about the way the BTCC goes about its business at the moment to get angry about, and believe me, and my wonky disturbing mind, I can get angry about the slightest things very easily! :p

All the BTCC really lacks is a "Signature" event.
V8 Supercars have Bathurst, NASCAR has Daytona, IRL has the Indy 500, F1 has Monaco, heck you could argue the Norisring is this for the DTM, so in my view its a massive shame there isn't a "Thruxton 1000" or something.

Notwithstanding what I said about the current format, I just wish there was one longer race with driver changes and whatnot, even if it was non-championship.
The British GP support race used to be a bit like this, but vanished due to various squabbles...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:18 am 
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codename_47 wrote:
All the BTCC really lacks is a "Signature" event.
V8 Supercars have Bathurst, NASCAR has Daytona, IRL has the Indy 500, F1 has Monaco, heck you could argue the Norisring is this for the DTM, so in my view its a massive shame there isn't a "Thruxton 1000" or something.


With the problems surround FIA GT1 at the moment, perhaps it could be an opportune time for BTCC bosses to to organise a special event of some sort and attach the "Tourist Trophy" tag to it??


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:30 am 
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Yeaa bring back the TT.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:49 pm 
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The BTCC has had a good few signature events over the years, the TT, the British GP support race, the TOCA Shoot Out. But thanks to issues with funding, television rights and finding a format that suits the existing machinery all have fallen by the wayside.


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