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Seriously?

I mean I know there are uneducated fans who see the crash on YT and post what they think should've happened but there's a bit of a difference between the average Youtube troll and a professional racing driver who'd have more experience in exactly what happens in a crash like that.

What sort of stuff did he say?

Well yeah why shouldn't he be angry? A member of his family died in a tragic accident and there was involvement from another driver who seemed not to do much to avoid the accident. I wouldn't blame Biela, more wrong place wrong time, but he arrived at the scene too fast and seemed to do too little too late.

I kinda agree with Jason. Whilst Biela didn't do it on purpose, but lets be honest, his attempt at avoiding it was abysmal.

I don't know - I only ventured onto the internet a couple of years after the crash. The moderators on the forum would delete any messages about O'dor and send a PM explaining why they didn't want it discussing, so I guess things must have got quite heated when it had been discussed. I don't know if the forum is still online and last time I visited a few years ago all the older posts were gone.

Personally I agree that Biela could have avoided O'dor's car, but he would definately have ended up in the barriers himself, so it's understandable he did what he did. It's also easy to criticise with hindsight, I'm sure most of us in the same situation would have just stood on the brakes, locked up and slid straight in as well.

Honestly, it's a pretty shitty thing to throw blame or hold a grudge against Biela in that situation. Drivers know they're all taking a risk when they get behind the wheel. An intentional wreck or act of unbelievable stupidity should have the driver held accountable, but not trying to avoid an out of control car. Odor's car made a final turn just as it came to a stop to put it directly in front of Biela, 1 second before he hit him. Don't think you can put that on Biela, and if Plato ever did so that makes him even more of a shitbag than he already was.

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Especially given what a dirty driver Plato is/has been - causing intentional accidents for many years. Biela could have avoided that but didn't, showing that even top class racing drivers (which he clearly is) can make mistakes. Sad outcome, to be sure, but that's the sort of accident that can happen on enclosed tracks like Avus.

This is what I was getting at (though put far more eloquently!)

It was a split second decision that had horrific consequences. Fact is, it probably wasn't even a concious, logical thought but a basic human instinct that made it happen.
Yes, it was regrettable, he fucked up and I'm sure Frank has more regrets about it than anyone else, but to keep punishing him for a split second decision that went wrong years after the fact is a bit lame imo.

If you compared the two side by side without knowing of that crash, which one would you think is the dirty driver on the verge of recklessness and which one would you consider clean...

Glass houses....stones...etc

(Hey whaddya know, turned it into a Plato rant after all! )

Everyone reacts to grief differently but it's only human nature to feel anger at something or someone, especially when there's a tragic accident involving other people. I'm sure we all learnt that last year right? To judge or question someone's motives around their grief is poor form really. I think that is what's really shitty.

No-one here blames Biela but it's understandable why anyone from the O'dor or Plato families would feel anger toward him.

I disagree. Grief is no excuse for holding someone responsible for a death wrongfully. If my cousin was killed after he lost control of his car, swerved into the oncoming lane and hit a car going in the other direction who didn't manage to avoid him, am I right to blame the driver of the other car? That's pretty much akin to what happened here. Biela didn't start the accident, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and no blame would be directed at him had Odor walked away.

Questioning the presence of grief is shitty, but questioning someone's choice to blame another wrongfully for a death I think is pretty fair. As a driver Plato should know better, he's been far more of an instigating factor in crashes that could have turned out the same way.

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Yes you are. That's your right and is expected. Is it also your right to absolve anyone of responsibility? Absolutely. Like I said before, everyone handles grief differently. End of.

And it's my right to call him a shitbag for such retarded logic, grief or no grief. You don't think Biela is grieving too and carrying around a lot of baggage about this? Nobody deserves to be told they killed someone if they didn't.

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I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Saying someone is a shitbag for the way they handle grief is poor form to me. Blame is expected in this situation regardless of whether it's right or not to do so. If you've been through this yourself you'd understand.

I don't think this is going anywhere now, kinda sorry I brought it up but the only thing I'll add to the matter is that this isn't something that happened in the immediate aftermath of the crash but merely discussions about the crash well over 10 years later.

I know grief never fully goes away but after that kind of time period its just re-opening old wounds and no-one benefits from it.

Anyway, as I say there's no real point to this now, can't blame either side now we've had a good think about it, just wish I'd never asked really, sorry...

A change of subject.

The Dynamics Civics?

Yep.

ES are advertising a seat for a third car.

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/4 ... drive.html

So the team we all love to hate are running a pay driver, who we will probably hate more because he's shit and won't be occasionally winning races in between punting people off...

But yay, bigger car count

What are you talking about? Are you drunk?

Is he getting ES and RML mixed up?