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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:56 am 
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FHgrad99 wrote:
I think Nascar should suspend Carl Edwards for what happened yesterday. I understand that Nascar's position when it comes to "letting them race" but there should be a line as far as how much they "let them race" goes. I feel that Carl Edwards crossed that line yesterday. He put Brad Keselowski and a lot of fans at risk by his actions yesterday. While nobody expected Keselowski's car to flip but there was intent on Edwards' part to wreck Keselowski on the fastest part of the track. Another poster said mentioned that Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon and Ted Musgrave were all suspended for one race for incidents that were far less dangerous than this. I think Edwards will be suspended for at least Bristol and likely longer based on precedent.


After having 24-odd hours to gather my thoughts, I agree that he should be suspended, but I can safely say that if NASCAR does nothing, I won't be surprised. Just as a track record:

- Denny Hamlin was only held for one lap for spinning Brad Keselowski in the middle of the field at Homestead last year. Yeah, he did it at the exit of the corner, but you're still doing 140-150 mph exiting the corner. This after Denny said that he would "handle it" the previous week.
- Juan Montoya put Tony Stewart into the wall deliberately at Homestead while 40-odd laps down. His punishment: 2 laps. And if B-Kez didn't flip yesterday, the two incidents would be pretty similar.
- Tony Stewart ran Matt Kenseth into the grass and almost caused a Big One with Kenseth spinning across traffic at Daytona in 2006. Tony was only sent to the end of the longest line.
- And finally (probably the most comparable incident to the Edwards/Keselowski incident), David Gilliland intentionally wrecked Juan Montoya in the middle of the straightaway in front of the field at Texas in 2008. Gilliland was only parked for the end of the race.

There's probably a few more I've missed, and some (if not all) have been mentioned. And that's just on tracks 1.5 miles and bigger. And then you take a look at the recent suspensions...

- Harvick suspended for wrecking Coy Gibbs at Martinsville in 2002. He came over the radio and said that he was taking him out, then did so, so I guess that was justified (at the time, obviously not now when nothing was done about Hamlin spinning Keselowski).
- Gordon suspended for spinning Marcos Ambrose at Montreal in 2007. Whether he should have been ahead of Ambrose or placed where he was supposed to be on that restart is another story altogether; the fact was he ignored NASCAR's instructions, wrecked Ambrose, and deserved to be suspended.
- Musgrave suspended for running Kelly Bires into the wall at Milwaukee in 2007. Can't comment on it as I haven't seen the incident and it's not up on YouTube.

Basically, intentional dangerous driving only gets a slap on the wrist by officials. So going by that logic, I won't be surprised if Carl Edwards not only escapes suspension, but escapes a points penalty and a fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:53 am 
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Not sure if anyone else has thought this, but getting airborne might have been the luckiest thing for Brad. In the last decade these dogleg triovals you see at Texas, Atlanta and Charlotte have probably been the most consistently dangerous areas of any track on the NASCAR circuit. Blaise Alexander and Tony Roper were killed by hard hits into the outside wall from spins very similar to Keselowski's, Davey Allison very nearly killed in a similar spin in the '92 Winston. That's why the roof looked so bad after Keselowski's crash, but hitting the wall driver's side first or nose first would have been potentially fatal.

There's pretty much no worse place you could turn someone on a track today - the fact they reach their top speed there, the lack of banking to dissipate speed in a spin, and the sharp angle change of the wall just before and after the start/finish line make it so much worse than the likes of Daytona or Talladega.

In between this being just about the most dangerous corner you could choose, the fact Carl had 282 laps to think it over before he acted, the fact that the two most talked-about previous incidents (the wreck on lap 40 and the Talladega finish last year) WERE CARL'S FAULT - I don't even know what there is to argue about here. Keselowski had nothing 'coming to him' from Carl. The wreck deserves a 1 race suspension minimum, and after that just lesson learnt and move on. But Carl actually justifying this as some "code" he lives by - that makes me wonder whether he should ever be on a track again.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:57 am 
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kentrulz wrote:
FHgrad99 wrote:
I think Nascar should suspend Carl Edwards for what happened yesterday. I understand that Nascar's position when it comes to "letting them race" but there should be a line as far as how much they "let them race" goes. I feel that Carl Edwards crossed that line yesterday. He put Brad Keselowski and a lot of fans at risk by his actions yesterday. While nobody expected Keselowski's car to flip but there was intent on Edwards' part to wreck Keselowski on the fastest part of the track. Another poster said mentioned that Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon and Ted Musgrave were all suspended for one race for incidents that were far less dangerous than this. I think Edwards will be suspended for at least Bristol and likely longer based on precedent.


After having 24-odd hours to gather my thoughts, I agree that he should be suspended, but I can safely say that if NASCAR does nothing, I won't be surprised. Just as a track record:

- Denny Hamlin was only held for one lap for spinning Brad Keselowski in the middle of the field at Homestead last year. Yeah, he did it at the exit of the corner, but you're still doing 140-150 mph exiting the corner. This after Denny said that he would "handle it" the previous week.
- Juan Montoya put Tony Stewart into the wall deliberately at Homestead while 40-odd laps down. His punishment: 2 laps. And if B-Kez didn't flip yesterday, the two incidents would be pretty similar.
- Tony Stewart ran Matt Kenseth into the grass and almost caused a Big One with Kenseth spinning across traffic at Daytona in 2006. Tony was only sent to the end of the longest line.
- And finally (probably the most comparable incident to the Edwards/Keselowski incident), David Gilliland intentionally wrecked Juan Montoya in the middle of the straightaway in front of the field at Texas in 2008. Gilliland was only parked for the end of the race.

There's probably a few more I've missed, and some (if not all) have been mentioned. And that's just on tracks 1.5 miles and bigger. And then you take a look at the recent suspensions...

- Harvick suspended for wrecking Coy Gibbs at Martinsville in 2002. He came over the radio and said that he was taking him out, then did so, so I guess that was justified (at the time, obviously not now when nothing was done about Hamlin spinning Keselowski).
- Gordon suspended for spinning Marcos Ambrose at Montreal in 2007. Whether he should have been ahead of Ambrose or placed where he was supposed to be on that restart is another story altogether; the fact was he ignored NASCAR's instructions, wrecked Ambrose, and deserved to be suspended.
- Musgrave suspended for running Kelly Bires into the wall at Milwaukee in 2007. Can't comment on it as I haven't seen the incident and it's not up on YouTube.

Basically, intentional dangerous driving only gets a slap on the wrist by officials. So going by that logic, I won't be surprised if Carl Edwards not only escapes suspension, but escapes a points penalty and a fine.


It appears that this could go either way based on what they've done in the past. I guess I really shouldn't be surprised by whatever punishment Nascar decides to hand down tommorrow. All I know is that just parking him for the rest of the race in Atlanta isn't enough because Edwards already did what he had set out to do and that was to wreck Keselowski. If that's all the punishment he gets, then essentially Edwards didn't get punished.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:51 am 
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Thank god Keselowki wasn't hurt, because that ¨*%¨*% really deserved to be taken out from something he wanted bad like this Atlanta race. Now he'll think more before racing agressively and beyond the edge crashing people.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Philthy82 wrote:
Not sure if anyone else has thought this, but getting airborne might have been the luckiest thing for Brad. In the last decade these dogleg triovals you see at Texas, Atlanta and Charlotte have probably been the most consistently dangerous areas of any track on the NASCAR circuit. Blaise Alexander and Tony Roper were killed by hard hits into the outside wall from spins very similar to Keselowski's, Davey Allison very nearly killed in a similar spin in the '92 Winston. That's why the roof looked so bad after Keselowski's crash, but hitting the wall driver's side first or nose first would have been potentially fatal.

There's pretty much no worse place you could turn someone on a track today - the fact they reach their top speed there, the lack of banking to dissipate speed in a spin, and the sharp angle change of the wall just before and after the start/finish line make it so much worse than the likes of Daytona or Talladega.

In between this being just about the most dangerous corner you could choose, the fact Carl had 282 laps to think it over before he acted, the fact that the two most talked-about previous incidents (the wreck on lap 40 and the Talladega finish last year) WERE CARL'S FAULT - I don't even know what there is to argue about here. Keselowski had nothing 'coming to him' from Carl. The wreck deserves a 1 race suspension minimum, and after that just lesson learnt and move on. But Carl actually justifying this as some "code" he lives by - that makes me wonder whether he should ever be on a track again.

To be honest, I dont think the hit would have been alll that bad, if he even were to hit the wall without getting airborne, here is why.

The Roper and Alexander incidents happned going into the first dogleg and they were both turned head on into the wall from the RR 1/4 panel. Brad was turned towards the infield. If Carl really wanted to hurt Brad, he woulda gone at the RR.

Second of all, the direction of Brads car helped as well. There wasnt really a huge change of direction. The car continued more than less down the track. It didnt directly take off towards the wall or towards the infield.

Lastly, if the car had stayed on the ground, Brad may have been able to regain control of the car or the tires may have gotten grip and he may have been able to keep the car from hitting the wall. The last thing you want is for the car to go into the air because then at that point you are just along for the ride and cant do anyting at all.

The incident at lap 40 was a racing deal, Carl thought he had room and he may have when he started to come down but he coulda just held his ground as well, yet Brad coulda given Carl some more room because he could see that Carl was coming down. Yeah, Brad said he lifted, but who knows if that is true or not and also, there is that middle pedal called the brakes he coulda used. Just a racin deal on my book since both of them coulda done something different.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Yeah, the problem is that he got airbourne and got the wall in almost the worst position possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:33 pm 
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It was just announced that Carl Edwards will not be suspended.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:34 pm 
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That's disgusting.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:36 pm 
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EARL SHUD B FAWKIN SHAWT!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Saw that coming.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:39 pm 
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Corvus wrote:
It was just announced that Carl Edwards will not be suspended.

Sportscenter is reporting that Edwards will NOT be suspended.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Completely disgraceful, but predictable. NASCAR was never going to suspend one of its pin up drivers.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:41 pm 
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This is the perfect reason why NASCAR has become such a joke.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Ugh, fucking stupid.

Expected, tho.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:54 pm 
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This will set a very sad and very dangerous precedent. It's OK to pay someone back where they could get hurt. Someone will die because of this precedent. It won't be this year, but it will eventually happen.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:11 pm 
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If Carl or Jimmie were the ones flipping, I highly doubt there'd be this much bitching.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Andre wrote:
If Carl or Jimmie were the ones flipping, I highly doubt there'd be this much bitching.


:flag: :flag: :flag:

Anyway, fuck you NASCAR and fuck you Carl Edwards


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:23 pm 
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So was he fined? points deduction? Or just nothing? (Unless being parked from a race where you're 150 laps down is considered a penalty)

If it's no punishment at all then NASCAR is basically saying it's ok to pay drivers back at super speedways and risk serious injury or death to drivers and fans. Awesome. I guess if Regan Smith or some lesser driver tries it, the penalty will be vastly different.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Nascar is about to hold a press conference on NASCAR.com.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:30 pm 
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And ESPNews.

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