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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:40 pm 
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I would just like to take the time to congratulate "Britney" on taking over "True Grit's" mantle. Long may your sulking serve you well in forever bringing in second and third places. Tip of the hat good sir.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:45 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
Tip of the hat good sir.


By which you mean "throw of the hat"...

Image

:tumble:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Mika Kimi wrote:
Thank you for this. I always hate it when people moan about a driver who wins "just because he has a good car".

It's not often that a driver wins the championship, despite not having the best car. I'd say Raikkonen in 2007, and then go back to Prost in 1986.

If you have the best car, you can be champ. If not, it will be bloody difficult and people will start saying you've lost it


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:50 pm 
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Haha good call Kals


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:58 pm 
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let the memes begin.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:03 pm 
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Referring to the video of Rosberg throwing his hat at Hamilton, someone on Twitter last night commented it the most aggressive they'd seen Rosberg be all season.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:05 pm 
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Rosberg is turing into DC

THIS IS MY YEAR


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:24 pm 
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Omega wrote:
Mika Kimi wrote:
Thank you for this. I always hate it when people moan about a driver who wins "just because he has a good car".

It's not often that a driver wins the championship, despite not having the best car. I'd say Raikkonen in 2007, and then go back to Prost in 1986.

If you have the best car, you can be champ. If not, it will be bloody difficult and people will start saying you've lost it


Senna 91


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:26 pm 
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Schumacher '94, arguably '95 and maybe 2000. Senna '91. Potentially Button '09 (car was the best to start with, Red Bull was better at the end of the season).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:26 pm 
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The ego is back:

Quote:
"I don't go into a race to finish second," added Hamilton.

"Growing up, as a family we never had anything handed to us. We always had to grab it with both hands and push for it.

"Fortunately no one had any damage and Nico got into back the lead."

A mistake from Rosberg 10 laps from the end ultimately handed Hamilton victory, though the champion laughed he was "going to take him anyway".

"Somehow I was going to get past him in those 10 laps," Hamilton added. "I generally disagree with him."

Suggested to Hamilton he faced talks with Wolff and non-executive chairman Niki Lauda, the 30-year-old replied: "No need.

"Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but it doesn't matter because I won the race, so I feel pretty good about it."


All well and good, except Toto has already said in more than one interview that the team believe Hamilton's move was too much, and that they will sit both drivers down for a chat...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:28 pm 
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nea wrote:
Schumacher '94 and arguably '95. Senna '91. Potentially Button '09 (car was the best to start with, Red Bull was better at the end of the season).


I think 94 and 09 are a bit of both - The Benetton and Brawn were the class of the field to begin with, but Williams and Red Bull pulled it back towards the end.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:36 pm 
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gkmotorsport wrote:
The ego is back:

Quote:
"I don't go into a race to finish second," added Hamilton.

"Growing up, as a family we never had anything handed to us. We always had to grab it with both hands and push for it.

"Fortunately no one had any damage and Nico got into back the lead."

A mistake from Rosberg 10 laps from the end ultimately handed Hamilton victory, though the champion laughed he was "going to take him anyway".

"Somehow I was going to get past him in those 10 laps," Hamilton added. "I generally disagree with him."

Suggested to Hamilton he faced talks with Wolff and non-executive chairman Niki Lauda, the 30-year-old replied: "No need.

"Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but it doesn't matter because I won the race, so I feel pretty good about it."


All well and good, except Toto has already said in more than one interview that the team believe Hamilton's move was too much, and that they will sit both drivers down for a chat...


Let's not take things out of context, here's the whole article which better explains Hamilton's position...

Quote:
Newly-crowned three-time Formula 1 world champion Lewis Hamilton has strongly refuted Nico Rosberg's claim he tried to force his Mercedes team-mate off the track in the United States Grand Prix.

Rosberg felt Hamilton's move into Turn 1 on the opening lap at Austin was "extremely aggressive" as the duo bumped wheels, which was "one step too far" according to the German.

The incident sparked memories of their clash in Belgium 14 months ago, and Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff confirmed talks are to take place in which the drivers will be reminded of their responsibilities.

Hamilton was adamant his actions were a consequence of the conditions at the time.

"I didn't try and push him hard, it wasn't intentional," said Hamilton.

"I've watched a replay, we were both on wets and the outside is always the grippier side, so Nico had the grippier line, but I was ahead so it was my line.

"We went in, I started to turn, but I understeered into him. He steered round and we touched.

"I don't feel like I was aggressive. At the end of the day I was on the inside so it was my line.

"Of course, there are always those comments [from Rosberg] that come up, but I would never intentionally do something like that to my team-mate."

Although Hamilton intimated after qualifying he would not take risks in the wet conditions amid the chance to seal the title, at no stage did he give any quarter in the battles he faced.

"I don't go into a race to finish second," added Hamilton.

"Growing up, as a family we never had anything handed to us. We always had to grab it with both hands and push for it.

"Fortunately no one had any damage and Nico got into back the lead."

A mistake from Rosberg 10 laps from the end ultimately handed Hamilton victory, though the champion laughed he was "going to take him anyway".

"Somehow I was going to get past him in those 10 laps," Hamilton added. "I generally disagree with him."

Suggested to Hamilton he faced talks with Wolff and non-executive chairman Niki Lauda, the 30-year-old replied: "No need.

"Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but it doesn't matter because I won the race, so I feel pretty good about it."


I've not seen any interviews with Toto Wolff (thanks MSNBC for your quality coverage....) so can't comment on what he's said. But I did read this today to which he states

Quote:
Asked about the Austin incident, Wolff said: "It's very hard. Lewis came on the radio and said it wasn't on purpose.

"I think it's something we are going to talk about in a couple of days, but this is the moment to celebrate a world champion who deserves to be world champion.

"Once the emotions have cooled down we will discuss."


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121512

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:42 pm 
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gkmotorsport wrote:
nea wrote:
Schumacher '94 and arguably '95. Senna '91. Potentially Button '09 (car was the best to start with, Red Bull was better at the end of the season).


I think 94 and 09 are a bit of both - The Benetton and Brawn were the class of the field to begin with, but Williams and Red Bull pulled it back towards the end.


1994 is a stretch. The Williams that year was terrible to begin with and it took most of the year to get it at least on terms with the Benetton. On paper, only in Australia did Hill match Schumacher in a straight fight. Silverstone and Japan were great but influenced by circumstance.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:59 pm 
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kals wrote:
I've not seen any interviews with Toto Wolff (thanks MSNBC for your quality coverage....) so can't comment on what he's said


Ironically, I'm pretty sure I read it on Autosport's own live text coverage. Can't find it now though, so never mind.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:24 pm 
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kals wrote:

Quote:
Newly-crowned three-time Formula 1 world champion Lewis Hamilton has strongly refuted Nico Rosberg's claim he tried to force his Mercedes team-mate off the track in the United States Grand Prix.

Rosberg felt Hamilton's move into Turn 1 on the opening lap at Austin was "extremely aggressive" as the duo bumped wheels, which was "one step too far" according to the German.

The incident sparked memories of their clash in Belgium 14 months ago, and Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff confirmed talks are to take place in which the drivers will be reminded of their responsibilities.

Hamilton was adamant his actions were a consequence of the conditions at the time.

"I didn't try and push him hard, it wasn't intentional," said Hamilton.

"I've watched a replay, we were both on wets and the outside is always the grippier side, so Nico had the grippier line, but I was ahead so it was my line.

"We went in, I started to turn, but I understeered into him. He steered round and we touched.

"I don't feel like I was aggressive. At the end of the day I was on the inside so it was my line.

"Of course, there are always those comments [from Rosberg] that come up, but I would never intentionally do something like that to my team-mate."

Although Hamilton intimated after qualifying he would not take risks in the wet conditions amid the chance to seal the title, at no stage did he give any quarter in the battles he faced.

"I don't go into a race to finish second," added Hamilton.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121512


Now change the name Hamilton by Rossi, and Rosberg by Marquez


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Rosberg should be satisfied with this position, to become a Coulthard/Barrichello or gor for something else and be more like a Ralf Schumacher?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:36 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
Rosberg should be satisfied with this position, to become a Coulthard/Barrichello or gor for something else and be more like a Ralf Schumacher?


Well then he's more like Ralf Schumacher then, because he's got used to being shafted by another bloke on a regular basis. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:40 pm 
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94 Bennetton was the better car by dint of not playing by the rules.

95 it was the better car by swapping ford for Renault wherein most of the deficit to Williams lay.

Don't forget that was the same combination that then all moved to Ferrari to dominate the sport
The car was at very least on a par with the Williams and schuey did the rest, to say micheal dragged some rag tag bucket of bolts to a championship to a title is a stretch to say the least.

I'd also put forth an argument that the Ferrari was superior to the mclaren in 08 if it could almost propel sir spinalot massa to the title :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:04 pm 
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gkmotorsport wrote:
ptclaus98 wrote:
Lewis Hamilton has the best raw pace of anyone on the grid, Vettel included. Those of you saying that Rosberg would have just walked the championships had Lewis not been there are completely losing sight of the effect that having the fastest guy in the sport across the garage from him has done for him. What we're seeing now is the fatigue of a driver who has been at the edge of his abilities for so long. Only Vettel, Alonso and maybe Ricciardo have the ability to challenge him over the course of the season in a dominant car like that. Add to that the fact that at a certain point, the team has to acknowledge one driver as the superior title challenger and you have a broken driver. Without Hamilton, how are we even sure that Mercedes is so dominant in 2014 and 2015? Say he's paired with Paul Di Resta or someone like that. A solid driver, maybe capable of a win here and there. Two drivers with good pace, good experience, good racers, but winning a championship takes so much more, and once the summer comes around and there's infighting and stuff like that, you have two drivers who know nothing of championship pressure, and that can go south very quickly. Then 2015, without the momentum, and with Vettel and Ferrari closing the gap, how do they handle that pressure? Lewis is the team leader for more than his raw pace. He's shown that he has the mettle for winning championships. Once you start competing for championships in F1, you lose your innocence. Either you're a champion or you're broken.


This is a great post full of good points, but the very first sentence holds it back from winning the thread. I don't think Lewis can match Vettel or hold a candle to Alonso when it comes to raw pace unless he has a perfect car under him. His drives in the sub-standard McLarens didn't really stand out like the latter pair have managed in poor cars.

Hamilton is definitely one the very best drivers of his generation, but I don't think he has ever pulled off a 'miraculous' drive like Senna in a Toleman, Lotus or McLaren Ford, or Alonso in 2012, or some of the drives Vettel has pulled out this year.

Lewis definitely knows how to win championships, but the only time he has ever really had to *work* for one was 2008. That year, he came within a whisker of losing it to Felipe Massa.

I would argue that his 2009 drives were absolutely up there with anything Alonso has done or Vettel this year. McLaren were awful that year, and his input, looking back, was probably one of the big factors in how well they developed, considering they've had at least one world champion the last 3 years and haven't been able to dig themselves out of a bad car.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:59 pm 
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