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2014 Random F1 Discussion
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Author:  Gaara [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

And wasn't much of it down to Super Aguri too? :whistling:

Author:  Artur Craft [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Tobias wrote:
AUTOSPORT says that Alonso is off to McLaren. Announcement will be made once there is clarity about whom his teammate will be for 2015.

sorry for the Danes here, but I want to see Button in that other seat. Not Magnussen.

Honestly, I don't.

I like Jenson very much, he's a very nice guy and had a great career. I don't wanna see it ending with a massacre a la Kimi had this year. Plus, Mclaren is likekly to remain about the same(or worse, depending on how Honda PU will perform) in pecking order, so it would be just another year of collecting 6-10th positions.

Author:  LucasWheldon [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Gaara wrote:
And wasn't much of it down to Super Aguri too? :whistling:


it was so good to be true a car designed by Honda winning the championship

Author:  kals [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

micha wrote:
Fish88 wrote:
Gaara wrote:
Well Honda did give him shitty cars.


Well they also gave him his championship winning car.


but not an engine ;)


Which was a very weakpoint anyway. Without the Mercedes engine I doubt Honda/Brawn would have won in 2009.

Gaara wrote:
And wasn't much of it down to Super Aguri too? :whistling:


The double diffuser was a concept identified and created by a Super Aguri designer. The chassis was then designed around that concept by Ross Brawn's squad.

Author:  Fish88 [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Dunno, the Brawn car was really good especially in the beginning. If Honda stayed on they could have pomped a shitload of money in the car so it would have been good troughout the whole season. The weak point of Brawn was their lack of money thus not being able to develop the car that well, this gave Red Bull a chance to catch up with them throughout the season.

Author:  kals [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Honda had the weakest engine in the 2-3 years ahead of their departure, not by much but it wasn't on par with the Renault and Mercedes of the period. Brawn would have / could have won races with the Honda engine but it would never have challenged for the titles.

Author:  James B [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

I don't buy that at all. There was very little in it between the engines at that point in time - the difference was all in the aero. The Brawn would still have been by far the fastest car for half a season and quick enough to get Button the title in the second half. The only difference would've been Bruno Senna in the second seat instead of Rubens

In any case, McLaren should go with Magnussen. Button was in a similar position after his first year - he did as well as Magnussen has this year, perhaps slightly tidier. But Frank decided to loan him out, and 2001 nearly ruined his career. If Magnussen was to be loaned out to another midfield team (although there aren't any left atm) or left on the sidelines for a year, it would probably do similar damage to his reputation. I'd rather not see Button out of F1 but if it's between the two, Magnussen's got more to offer long-term - we've had enough of short-termist decisions that have ruined drivers' careers in the last few years, we don't need another one

Author:  kals [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

James B wrote:
I don't buy that at all. There was very little in it between the engines at that point in time - the difference was all in the aero. The Brawn would still have been by far the fastest car for half a season and quick enough to get Button the title in the second half. The only difference would've been Bruno Senna in the second seat instead of Rubens


I don't buy that at all. The Honda engine was a bag of nails and was known to be down on power and drive-ability versus the top powerplants.

Author:  James B [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Which explains why Honda's best dry result of 2007 was at Monza, of course

Author:  kals [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  2014 Random F1 Discussion

James B wrote:
Which explains why Honda's best dry result of 2007 was at Monza, of course


The car had zero downforce or mechanical grip which explains why the car had next to no decent performance anywhere else. That helped at Monza.

Author:  WilliamsF1 [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Gaara wrote:
Kevin Eason just said third cars for Ferrari and Red Bull for next year :o


I thought it was meant to be a rotational thing - So Ferrari & Redbulll for say the first race or two & then another 2 teams? When you think about it, because Ferrari finished down in 4th place this year, they would've been given a smaller pit garage at the races next year... Now with a 3rd car, they will most likely get more room than Mercedes. I guess there are more & more benefits to this when you think about it....

But, if Ferrari is indeed running it throughout the whole season, then had Bianchi not have had that accident, he would've surely been Ferrari's pick for the 3rd car...

Maybe if Kubica gets the last of his surgery done, he can make a late appearance for the final races of next year?

Author:  Artur Craft [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

kals wrote:
James B wrote:
Which explains why Honda's best dry result of 2007 was at Monza, of course


The car had zero downforce or mechanical grip which explains why the car had next to no decent performance anywhere else. That helped at Monza.

don't remember about 2007, but in 2006 Rubens said Honda was the fastest car in F1 in high speed corners because the car had too much downforce, albeit even more drag, as well, which explains it's poor performance that year.

About engines, Rubens also said, in 2009, that one of the major improvements from Honda to Brawn was the Mercedes engine. He said that it wasn't that Honda lacked power, but the power/torque curve was way worse than the Mercedes and they(Brawn) gained a lot by switching engines.

Honda made great engines in early 90's(Renault only equaled the late 1991 power of Honda in early 93) and apparently they were up to great things when they lastly pulled out, going by that race car engineering article that Stefmeister linked some weeks ago.

I think it would be too much to expect them to be on par with Mercedes but my personal bet is that it will be better than Renault and Ferrari, well, mainly because these two are shite anyway. :p

The only manufacturer I would bet beating this Mercedes PU would be BMW because they produced the most powerful engines since early 2000s up untill 2008.

Author:  James B [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

It's also worth bearing in mind that the Brawn was designed for the Honda engine and serious work had to be done to fit a Mercedes engine in there, which I remember at the time team personnel saying that would cost them lap time. So any loss from the Honda would've been negated by the fact that it was the engine the car was designed for

Nearly all of Honda's best results over the previous two years (including also the Super Aguri results) came at high-speed circuits or those with long straights. I'm certain that the 2009 car would've been dominant regardless

Author:  Artur Craft [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

James B wrote:
I'm certain that the 2009 car would've been dominant regardless

I agree. According to tech magazines/sites, Honda was always underpowered than the average (Ferrari/Mercedes/Renault) during the entire 2000s decade, but it wasn't by much in 2006-2008 V8 era. With those planned inovations, they could have taken leap in 2009.

We cannot blame Honda solely for the mockery that that team was since the BAR days. They were equally ridiculous under Mercedes power in 2010-2012. Brackley only got it right on very few ocasions.

Author:  Karan [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Ian-S wrote:
Button has had his time tbh, he's also burnt Honda in the past (by that I mean they employed him because he was the next great thing, and didn't live up to the hype). The sensible choice is to put Button in the car but would you really want to do that when he maybe has only 2 or 3 years left and another driver approaching the swan song of his career too? Honda traditionally like to have one experienced and one young gun in their team, a conundrum for McLaren.


Well if McLaren and Honda put together a solid package then there's a good chance Alonso could bring home the WDC but it's unlikely that Magnussen would be able to bring home the WCC, which I'm sure would mean a lot more to the team. Alonso-Button would likely deliver it.

Author:  KingOfChins [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Karan wrote:
but it's unlikely that Magnussen would be able to bring home the WCC, which I'm sure would mean a lot more to the team. Alonso-Button would likely deliver it.

lolwut

Author:  Mika Kimi [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Well it's a random discussion so here goes: Christian Horner is getting married to Geri Halliwell. Yes, Geri Halliwell from the Spice Girls.

Just Googled her, well done Christian. 8)

Author:  micha [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Mika Kimi wrote:
Well it's a random discussion so here goes: Christian Horner is getting married to Geri Halliwell. Yes, Geri Halliwell from the Spice Girls.

Just Googled her, well done Christian. 8)



Image

Author:  WilliamsF1 [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Mika Kimi wrote:
Well it's a random discussion so here goes: Christian Horner is getting married to Geri Halliwell. Yes, Geri Halliwell from the Spice Girls.

Just Googled her, well done Christian. 8)


I guess he wanted to spice up his life.... :lol:

Author:  Bleu [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Honda was taking the engine freeze more seriously in the early parts of it, just like Renault was.

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