2013 Formula 1 Magyar Nagydíj

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:55 pm

phil1993 wrote:

I think Australia 2009 must sum up 21st century McLaren in one race: be in the shit, recover from it, screw it up, try and cover themselves and end up in a worse place.

I never liked Ron, but I kinda want him to come back just to bitch slap Whitmarsh.

gd49 · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:56 pm

I'm confused, I thought grosjean got the drive through for passing button when he skipped the chicane, not the massa overtake?

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kals · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:58 pm

ellis wrote:

phil1993 wrote:

I think Australia 2009 must sum up 21st century McLaren in one race: be in the shit, recover from it, screw it up, try and cover themselves and end up in a worse place.

I never liked Ron, but I kinda want him to come back just to bitch slap Whitmarsh.

Me too.

kals · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:00 pm

ellis wrote:

When interviewed they said that Lewis had given the place back. When asked if he lifted, McLaren replied yes. Once on the throttle, Lewis never lifted it. Kimi just had an advantage out of the corner from the smoother exit and on the power earlier on a clean part of the circuit.

Looking back, like the Australian GP Farce, I think it's safe to assume that Lewis was pressured into the situation by Whitmarsh, who was the man behind the Aussie mess too. I think Lewis would've maybe gotten the Spa win had they just been honest and argued the point fairly.

I thought the reason why Lewis wasn't given his win back at Spa, was not because of the evidence but due to the fact that you cannot actually appeal a "drive-through" or equivalent penalty. Even though McLaren knew this, they went ahead with the appeal anyway.

ryan86 · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:22 pm

Did Toyota appeal the penalty in Australia 2009 or did the FIA decide the incident needed looking at?

Gaara · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:39 pm

FIA got extra evidence, ie the interviews and radio.

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:02 pm

There was no appeal, otherwise it'd take longer. It took 4 days after reviewing video evidence (of the race, and post race interviews), telemetry, and most importantly the team radio from McLaren.

Basically the chain of events was:

Trulli goes off under SC
McLaren tell Lewis to let Trulli repass
Lewis lets Trulli pass
Race Finishes
Lewis goes on SpeedTV and BBC saying that he was told to let Trulli repass
Whitmarsh goes on BBC and says they will appeal the pass, as Trulli retook the pass
McLaren appeal, Trulli is Disqualified
FIA notice what the fans and journalists pointed out, regarding McLarens inconsistencies.
FIA Investigated, find Whitmarsh lied on TV and during the appeal.
McLaren sack Dave Ryan as the fall guy.

FIA were criticised for taking 4 days to make the decision, but it was a bit of a one off. It was a weird situation where they needed all sorts of data to be 100% sure, as I doubt they expected a team boss to make such a ridiculous lie.

cookie · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:06 pm

ellis wrote:

When interviewed they said that Lewis had given the place back. When asked if he lifted, McLaren replied yes. Once on the throttle, Lewis never lifted it. Kimi just had an advantage out of the corner from the smoother exit and on the power earlier on a clean part of the circuit.

Looking back, like the Australian GP Farce, I think it's safe to assume that Lewis was pressured into the situation by Whitmarsh, who was the man behind the Aussie mess too. I think Lewis would've maybe gotten the Spa win had they just been honest and argued the point fairly.

This was the reason for the penalty

Quote:

Drivers [have been] informed that in the event of a driver cutting a chicane and gaining a position, he not only [has] to give that place back but should also wait for another corner before he [can] attempt to retake it.

Something the stewards pulled out of their ass because there is no such rule. Alonso and Klien had an identical incident in Japan 2005 (Fernando overtook Klien by cutting the final chicane, let him by immediately and then passed him into turn 1), Fernando was allowed to keep his place.

I've never heard anything about lifting or not lifting to let Raikkonen by

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:07 pm

Yes because the rule is you can't take an advantage from a corner cut, whether it be for a position, or time advantage. Lewis skipping the chicane put him in a perfect opportunity to pass, which he would not have had had he taken the chicane the correct one. McLaren lying simply cemented the penalty, as there was no defense once they claimed that.

cookie · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:16 pm

I can't find anything about Mclaren lying. And why was Alonso not penalised for exactly the same incident in Japan 2005?

It was just incompetence of the stewards, just like last weekend.

JJ · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:39 pm

Karthikeyan passes Villeneuve by cutting the chicane with a bit of contact. No consequences iirc.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/9127331/karthikeyan_vs_villeneuve_spa_2005/

kals · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:42 pm

It was on JV, so no-one cared. Including Sauber.

highgroove · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:14 pm

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:52 pm

cookie wrote:

I can't find anything about Mclaren lying. And why was Alonso not penalised for exactly the same incident in Japan 2005?

It was just incompetence of the stewards, just like last weekend.

Using an incident 4 years earlier is not the best example to use when trying to argue consistency, especially given this discussion begun with Grosjeans penalty being inconsistent.

Edit: finally found out how to turn signatures off in the new Tapatalk.

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2013 Formula 1 Magyar Nagydíj

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