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mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:49 pm

I'm pretty sure they can't swap fronts and rears

Also, short run to the first turn hairpin exactly like Spa, could be chaos if Grosjean decides to forget to brake

kals · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:51 pm

aerogi wrote:

what is/was the advantage for putting the right tyres on the left and vice versa?

It can extend the usable life of a tyre.

Autosport.com wrote:

Reversing tyres - running them on the opposite side to the one they are designed for - is not a new trick but has come and gone with different tyre suppliers.

Pirelli tyres are asymmetric, requiring the outer face of the tyre is mounted on the outer face of the wheel, but they are not strictly directional, meaning that a reversed tyre will work.

It is common practice for teams to reverse a worn set of tyres and the outer shoulder of the tyre is still the outer shoulder when reversed and there does not appear to be a performance advantage.

Instead, it is about teams aiming to get more use from worn sets because tyres on one side of the car will wear more the other.

Because of the asymmetric design of the steel belt in the pre-Nurburgring tyres, there is the problem that a reversed tyre has the joint between its two ends pointing in the opposite direction, making it easier for it to separate if there is a problem with the tyre's shoulder, as happened at Silverstone.

ellis · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:57 pm

Estimated they get 2 more laps out of the tyre if they reverse it during the tyres life. As Kals posted, from the outside they appear to be able to do it, but the steel belt is asymmetric, which means it doesn't like going in the opposite direction - so Pirelli told them not to do it, and they did it anyway. Pirelli also said that it wasn't just an issue with running the belt in the reverse direction, it was because it got stressed in both. You'd run it the regular way and stress it, then reverse it and stress it in the opposite way. Think of if you were trying to snap a cable tie - the way you do it is by twisting it in 2 different directions constantly. Essentially this is what the teams did to the belt.

StefMeister · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:15 pm

Gary Anderson said on the BBC I think at Montreal that back in 1997 Jordon were swapping the rear tyres because they found that helped with the blistering that the GoodYear tyres suffered from on some circuits that year.

According to Paul Hembrey the reason the swapping became an issue this year is because of the steel belt:

Quote:

"The steel belt was angled in one direction which is why, when you invert it, it actually goes into a point rather than being pushed along the top of the belt. That is why it creates a weakness.

"Kevlar is not as rigid as steel, and it also operates at lower temperatures, so it gives you greater margin from that point of view.

Anthony Davidson just said that one of the reason's the teams were dropping the tyre pressures is because it helps with the graining. With them now been forced to run higher pressures we could see more graining.

micha · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:01 pm

ellis wrote:

Before. Now the FIA have a steward (I missed his name) who is policing the pit lane. He has the ability to check any of the teams at any time. He's allowed to check the tyre rotation direction (which is obviously what the FIA are now stopping with the no-swapping rule), the tyre pressures and the camber.

Minimum tyre pressure this week is 16 PSI, and it is enforced this time, not just a recommendation. Minimum camber is negative 4 deg, also enforced. These are based on Pirellis recommendations.

Will be fun if there are absolutely no tyre problems this weekend because of this. The teams then owe Pirelli a mayor apology .

webbsy · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:27 pm

vince wrote:

Its not often I get to see free practise but everytime I do I enjoy Brundle's trackside bits out and about on the circuit commenting on drivers' different approaches to corners. A bit like Mark Hughes does in Autosport.

Except Brundle doesn't come across as a pretentious dick like Huges does.

cookie · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:43 pm

micha wrote:

Will be fun if there are absolutely no tyre problems this weekend because of this. The teams then owe Pirelli a mayor apology .

Like that will ever happen, they will find something else to moan about. The tyres grain too much, they're too black, they're too round, ..

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:45 pm

@Stef, from what I've been noticing in the Ferrari onboards, shown on worldfeed, they are having big handling issues for quite a while now. The car is all over the place in most, if not all, of the recent tracks

What was astonishing for me while watching FP2 was how much better Red Bull's (Webber in this case) pace is compared to everybody else.

The graphics, at one point, showed Webber's very long stint all in the 1.36.XXXs, while Perez in a shorter stint was on the 1.38.XXXs and Bottas, also on shorter stint, on the 1.39.XXXs

Rosberg started on 1.37.XXXs, then dropped to 1.39.XXXs for a while, then got back to the 1.37.XXXs. Mark had just some +15 laps always on 1.36.XXXs

Smells like a walk over

BrainPain · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:59 pm

To compare Red Bull's pace with Williams (0 points) and Mclaren (6th in the constructors) isn't really saying anything.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:33 pm

The gap is way too large. 2 seconds faster than one and 3 seconds/per lap faster than the other.

Their cars are poor but still is a respectable gap. When fia.com makes the laptimes available, I'll be able to more properly compare with Ferraris, Lotuses...(Mercedes is off the pace going by Nico's stint shown)

Btw, the Lotus was twitchy this Friday but it was very entertaining watching Kimi's skill coping with it

ellis · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:53 pm

3 second gap is not too large. For decades we had 9 second gaps or more.

kals · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:13 pm

It is better to have larger gaps than smaller.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:20 pm

kals wrote:

It is better to have larger gaps than smaller.

Cups you mean? Larger cups for lager? That's way better than tiny cups.

kals · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:43 pm

Well, not for Beer Pong. Unless you want to be wasted after one game.

MaTT · PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:10 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

(Mercedes is off the pace going by Nico's stint shown)

There is of course the intriguing matter of how much fuel each team was running, mind!

That said, I am going to go for a Webber win this weekend, with Vettel and the Mercs chasing and Lotus and Ferrari not far behind.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:43 am

You're right about the unkown fuel. The thing which is eye catching to me is just how there is no drop in pace for Mark even after 23 laps:

Quote:

1:37.173
1:37.089
1:36.695
1:36.634
1:37.363
1:37.682
1:36.767
1:36.562
1:36.451
1:36.258
1:36.595
1:36.376
1:36.211
1:37.849
1:36.321
1:36.911
1:36.601
1:40.041
1:37.598
1:36.401
1:36.170
1:36.183
1:36.368

Rosberg is one of the only others who also have a longer stint, albeit not as long as Mark's

Quote:

1:37.575
1:36.400
1:36.712
1:36.998
1:38.930
1:36.770
1:36.942
1:38.286
1:36.938
1:41.642
1:40.907
1:37.453
1:37.393
1:37.307

Unlike Mark who are still on his fastest pace on laps 20th to 23th, Nico's pace is already dropping on the eleventh lap.

And to be fair to Mercedes, their pace is very good compared to everybody else, bar the Red Bulls.

What pleases me is that Sauber seems to have their best race pace so far this season. Very little drop and quite fast laps from both Hulk and Esteban on long stints. I know you can't read too much into this because the conditions each car is running might be different and etc, but they seem better than Mclaren, STR, FI.

Given their financial difficulties, I will very much hope for a good result specially for home driver Nico.

Echti · PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:24 am

They were just showing yellow flags and cut to a crash that happened on the Nordschleife

JJ · PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:24 am

Lol, they showed crash at Nordschleife.

Fish88 · PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:25 am

HUGE CRASH!!!!

At the nordschleife

Speedworx · PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:25 am

Oops, someones crashed their Porsche on the Nordschleife

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