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2012 Random F1 Discussion
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Author:  Fabs [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote:
Ah yes, what a sensible attitude. One GP every other year is a much worse proposal than no GP at all.


Don't you get it ? If you alternate, Spa will be done within 2 or 3 years.
Author:  phil1993 [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Fabs wrote:
Don't you get it ? If you alternate, Spa will be done within 2 or 3 years.


Maybe, maybe not. You don't know. I'm firmly of the attitude that eventually F1 will come back more towards Europe. It's not ideal, but there is no alternative. There is no money for them to host the race. There's no magic solution.

Well, unless we can convince the bloke who owns Man City to buy Spa. But then it'd get fucked anyway.

We're bloody lucky it's lasted the best part of the last ten years (bar 2002 and 2006). We have Bernie to thank for that. When he goes, CVC won't give two hoots about Spa as to them Belgium offers virtually nothing.
Author:  RtN [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Fabs wrote:
kals wrote:
Ah yes, what a sensible attitude. One GP every other year is a much worse proposal than no GP at all.


Don't you get it ? If you alternate, Spa will be done within 2 or 3 years.


Well, that's what a lot of people thought about Hockenheim and the Nurburgring.

Last time I checked, they're both still around.
Author:  ellis [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Bernie is the Spa race promoter. He is literally the only reason it's still on the calender. The fact it now has to be alternated shows how unsustainable the situation currently is. If the local businesses really do solely rely on the GP, then that just furthers the point. You can suggest Spa and those businesses will die without an annual GP, but at the end of the day, somebody has to pocket the difference, and it seems that up until now it has been Bernie, the man you all love to hate.
Author:  phil1993 [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
I don't hate Bernie. I find him a bit annoying at times - although that is him just being cheeky - and I fear the day he goes and leaves it just to CVC.
Author:  Gaara [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
The money tracks have to pay to have a GP is unsustainable. European tracks don't tend to have a lot of money to through around like China and the Middle East. Even Korea has found out that the money paid is much too much.

Unfortunately at the the end of the day it's all about making lots of money for CVC.
Author:  kals [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Fabs wrote:
kals wrote:
Ah yes, what a sensible attitude. One GP every other year is a much worse proposal than no GP at all.


Don't you get it ? If you alternate, Spa will be done within 2 or 3 years.


I'm not trying to be discourteous Fabs but you don't know how everything is going to work out. No-one wants to see the Belgian GP go but let's be realistic about it. It is better to have a race share scheme than nothing at all. It's worked out ok so far for Germany so why can't it work out for Belgian and France?
Author:  Gabriel [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
F1 should drop Spa, IndyCar should get it.
Author:  codename_47 [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
ellis wrote:
Bernie is the Spa race promoter. He is literally the only reason it's still on the calender. The fact it now has to be alternated shows how unsustainable the situation currently is. If the local businesses really do solely rely on the GP, then that just furthers the point. You can suggest Spa and those businesses will die without an annual GP, but at the end of the day, somebody has to pocket the difference, and it seems that up until now it has been Bernie, the man you all love to hate.


I don't get Bernie's business model though, which seems to be we're going to charge you so much to run the Grand Prix that for one prestigious weekend a year you're going to make such a serious loss that you'll struggle to put on enough events throughout the year to overcome that hit.

I understand he wants F1 to be seen as a premier brand and to do that you have to charge high prices but pricing most of your potential customers out of the game just seems to defy all logic.

I sometimes wonder what would've happened if the Crown Princes and far eastern governments hadn't become interested in holding a grand prix (mainly for their own reasons that have little to do with motorsports) over the last decade or so, where would Bernie be then?
You'd have the European tracks struggling for survival and dropping away one by one and no-one else coming into the sport and suddenly the FIA would then have to think about remodelling their pricing structure.

Still, this is about dropping one classic, fan favourite track in favour of one dull one in the middle of no-where where the best thing the fans can wish for the track is they're hoping F1 uses a long straight. Whooo....
If they do, (which I doubt!) I'm sure then they'll put a DRS zone down it and everyone will say its too long anyway and the track will be back to having no redeeming features bar some multicoloured runoffs that may cause issues for fans who suffer from epilepsy :o

Oh well, at least its in Europe :)

(Of course, They COULD make room for Spa if they dropped Bahrain for next year....but it seems the FIA are patting themselves on the back for going there already.....hmmm)
Author:  Scirocco [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Spa is done in 3-4 years tops. Having this deal done was the first process stage of losing it. Fucking shame.
Author:  kals [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Gabriel wrote:
F1 should drop Spa, IndyCar should get it.


This.
Author:  EAS [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Yeah. I get Spa switching with Paul Ricard (better having a loss making event once every two years than once every year - like German tracks and so on).

What I don't get is one of the most expected races of the season making losses and the series depending on authoritarian governments and some men who don't think twice to spend a lot of money either for vanity or to show to their land to the Western world.
Author:  ellis [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
codename_47 wrote:
I don't get Bernie's business model though, which seems to be we're going to charge you so much to run the Grand Prix that for one prestigious weekend a year you're going to make such a serious loss that you'll struggle to put on enough events throughout the year to overcome that hit.


You're reading far too much into it. It's simple supply and demand.

Host A (example: Belgium) can afford to pay you $5m
Host B (example: Bahrain) can afford to pay you $10m

Which one is better from a financial point of view?
Author:  Philthy82 [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
But F1 isn't run purely from a financial point of view, otherwise we'd see teams allowed to run different sponsors on their two cars. There's an element of prestige and history that needs to be kept as well, and moving every race to barren wastelands with no spectators or scenery doesn't do that.
Author:  ellis [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Philthy82 wrote:
But F1 isn't run purely from a financial point of view, otherwise we'd see teams allowed to run different sponsors on their two cars. There's an element of prestige and history that needs to be kept as well, and moving every race to barren wastelands with no spectators or scenery doesn't do that.


The FIA governs the rules regarding team liveries. As the FIA is a non-profit organisation, they have no interest in allowing that sort of thing.

FOM is a commercial group, of which 90% of the ownership is held by financial based corporations (CVC and JPMorgan).
Author:  SBan83 [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
I like this cartoon depicting the pussyfication of race control when it comes to rain in recent years.

Image
Author:  Tobias [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
if every earning driver could miss a million of his salary, Spa would be easily maintained in the calendar. It would then be property of the 'F1 collective'.
Author:  BrainPain [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
I doubt everyone except the drivers for the top 4 teams would be too happy with a million dollar dip in their salary...
Author:  bigears [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  2012 Random F1 Discussion
I am pleased the French GP is back at Paul Ricard. But it is a shame that it had to share with Spa, out of all of the other tracks.

Makes me feel I ought to dig out my GP3 game and drive the full track!
Author:  pdukers [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Random F1 Discussion
Tobias wrote:
if every earning driver could miss a million of his salary, Spa would be easily maintained in the calendar. It would then be property of the 'F1 collective'.


And if every F1 fan behind the TV would donate ONE dollar, Spa would be easily maintained in the calendar ;)
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