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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:22 am 
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I read that if "FOTA series" takes place they would race on many circuits that were dropped by F1 recently: Donington, Imola, Magny-Cours, Montreal and Indianapolis for example. Also rumours about Adelaide, Zolder and Jerez.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:01 pm 
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For a start Donington hasn't been dropped, it's just been picked up :p


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:17 pm 
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my mistake, I meant Silverstone.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:53 pm 
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If FOTA makes their own series then Canada and US GP's are 100% sure to be on the calendar. I think that Spa, Monza, Silverstone and a German GP would be on the calendar too.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Does the FIA have any say or control over the testing tracks like Jerez or Algrave?

If not then the FOTA teams could pick that up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:17 am 
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Autosport.com wrote:
Mosley: FOTA should enter to shape F1

By Jonathan Noble Monday, June 8th 2009, 17:22 GMT

FIA president Max Mosley has written to the eight remaining Formula One Teams' Association members urging them to enter next year's championship unconditionally so they can help shape the rules they want, AUTOSPORT can reveal.

After a weekend of high tension at the Turkish Grand Prix ahead of the publication on Friday of the 2010 entry list, Mosley's much-awaited response to the eight FOTA teams appeared conciliatory.

Mosley claimed that the best way the teams could help mould the future of the sport the way they wanted would be to drop the conditions attached to the entries they had made to the 2010 championship.

In fact, he reckoned it would be 'simple' to find a solution to FOTA's concerns about new rules if all the teams lodged unconditional entries and signed up for a budget cap - before helping create new regulations.

In the letter sent to Ferrari, McLaren, BMW Sauber, Renault, Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso, Toyota and Brawn, Mosley said that he wanted to sit down with all the 2010 teams later this month to begin discussions about framing such rules.

To do that, he therefore wanted the FOTA members to confirm by tomorrow that they wanted to compete in 2010 so he could press ahead with his plans.

"Under the International Sporting Code (Art. 66) we cannot now change the published 2010 rules unless we have the consent of all the competitors who have entered," wrote Mosley in the letter, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT. "However once we have a list of confirmed entries, we can make changes provided we have the necessary unanimous agreement.

"You therefore have the option of participating in this process as a confirmed entrant, or not. In order to participate, you should now write to us confirming that your entry is unconditional.

"It is of course up to you, but the simplest way to ensure that all entrants run under the same rules would be if everyone entered under the cost-cap rules as published and then all entrants cooperated to agree modifications to those rules which would make the proposition workable for all parties."

The FIA is due to announce its 2010 F1 entry list on Friday, with Williams and Force India having already lodged unconditional entries - and at least 10 other new teams vying for a spot.

Mosley made it clear to FOTA's members that any rule changes had to be made in cooperation with any new outfits who made it onto the grid.

"We plan to arrange a meeting of all the confirmed 2010 teams immediately after 12 June in order to discuss the cost saving measures that have been proposed by the 2009 FOTA teams," he explained.

"We have already canvassed the views of some of the likely new entrants regarding the proposed measures and the feedback is broadly positive so a solution should be relatively simple to achieve.

"To this end, if you do intend to enter, it would be helpful if you would let us have drafts of the precise rules you wish adopted, as much of the Enclosure 3 submitted by FOTA on behalf of the 2009 teams is currently in the form of minutes and statements of intent rather than the clear rules which you [and we] seek.

"We look forward to a positive response. It would be helpful to have this no later than close of business on Tuesday 9 June."

As part of the conditions of the team's entries to next year's championship, FOTA had demanded that a new Concorde Agreement be signed by June 11 - just 24 hours before the entry list is lodged.

Mosley has made it clear that such a scenario is impossible - especially because it will be necessary for all the 2010 teams to sign such an agreement.

"As explained at both our recent meetings, the FIA is willing to enter into a Concorde Agreement dealing with all questions of governance and rule stability along the traditional lines first established in 1981," Mosley continued in his letter.

"The Agreement was renewed in 1998 to the satisfaction of all currently competing teams and renewed again in 2005 by us to the satisfaction of Ferrari and, we understand, by FOM to the satisfaction of a number of teams including Williams.

"We are ready to begin discussions immediately with a view to signing an agreement without delay. However, there is no possibility of this being concluded in advance of settling the 2010 entry list, a draft of several hundred pages having been produced at the last moment.

"Also, the FIA will need to know who to discuss the draft with. There will certainly be new teams in 2010 and it presently seems unlikely that all of the 2009 teams will participate in 2010. Obviously the draft should be discussed between those that will participate only."

Autosport.com wrote:
Manufacturers could face legal challenge

By Adam Cooper Monday, June 8th 2009, 20:24 GMT

The five Formula 1 manufacturers could face a legal challenge to an agreement they allegedly signed after Monaco Grand Prix, AUTOSPORT has learned.

Following the meeting between the teams and the FIA in Monaco, the manufacturers are believed to have agreed a deal that committed each of them to paying the others €50m each should they break ranks and enter the World Championship unconditionally.

The five non-manufacturer teams are said to be not involved, and Williams and Force India have submitted unconditional entries.

AUTOSPORT has seen legal advice presented to the FIA suggesting that the alleged agreement could be a breach of the UK's 2002 Enterprises Act and/or EU competition law.

Toyota president John Howett, who is vice-chairman of FOTA, confirmed that an agreement exists, although he would not comment on the financial penalties allegedly involved.

"I'm not really prepared to discuss any of the detail at all," he told AUTOSPORT. "It's a genuine agreement between the manufacturers on entering a sporting competition. It's about entry not boycotting and doesn't cover any commercial issues. I think it's a genuine and totally legal and uncontroversial document."

Howett is adamant the legality of the agreement isn't in question.

"I have to say it's been checked by the lawyers of the teams, by the lawyers of the manufacturers, who are dealing on a daily business with EU competition legislation on anti-trust. I have also been advised that the EU competition department was consulted by one party. So I'm fairly sure that there is no issue."

Howett also suggested that the version of the agreement that has caught the attention of the FIA may not be the final one: "I do believe that one of the documents referred to isn't in fact the document that was signed."

The situation is complicated by the fact that the FIA continues to insist that Ferrari is obliged to enter the World Championship under the exclusive agreement that also includes the team's right of veto on technical regulations.

This week at Istanbul Park, team principal Stefano Domenicali insisted that the team's position is that recent developments rendered that arrangement invalid. However, it is widely believed that Ferrari will indeed appear on the entry list when it is published on Friday.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:57 pm 
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mosely trying to get the teams to sign up is definitely a trap.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:51 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:00 am 
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German site motorsport-total rumors, that the new series could be run by the dorna.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:26 am 
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We're getting somewhere?

Autosport.com wrote:
FIA hints at progress as FOTA responds

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, June 9th 2009, 19:09 GMT

The FIA has suggested that slight progress has been made in its row with the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) over the future of the sport, after claiming that a response to its request for teams to lodge unconditional entries for 2010 was 'not entirely negative.'

With FIA president Max Mosley having asked FOTA's eight members to let him know by this evening whether or not they would remove the conditions attached to their entries to the 2010 championship, the teams' organisation duly wrote to the governing body.

No details of the contents of the letter have been made public, and FOTA was unwilling to comment about the situation, but it is understood that the teams made it clear that they were not in a position to be able to drop the conditions attached to their entry yet.

However, having laid out clearly in the letter and various attachments what teams would like to see in place for them to commit, the FIA says it has seen some signs of encouragement in the latest stance.

A spokesman for the governing body said: "The FIA has received a letter and various attachments from FOTA, the contents of which are not entirely negative, and we are currently examining the details."

FOTA has been keen not to adopt an aggressive strategy with the governing body over the matter, and believes that the cost cut proposals it has put forward are exactly what is needed to help secure the sport's future.

However, the bigger issue for the teams remains governance of the sport. That is why the signing of a new Concorde Agreement to unify the teams, the FIA and the sport's commercial rights holder is so important.

Toyota vice-chairman John Howett said in Turkey last weekend that sorting out how rules are framed in the future was a priority.

"It's about fundamentally governance; there are also one or two issues of methodology of managing, shall we say, resource control, or reduction," he explained. "And I think the FOTA requests are extremely reasonable."


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:48 pm 
gpupdate wrote:
Renault warns suppliers of F1 exit
10 June 2009
It is believed that the Renault team has tipped off suppliers that it may not be present in Formula One next season, the German media reports. With Friday being the day that the FIA reveals the list of competitors for next season and the €45m budget cap still in place, Renault Sport is suspected to have informed partners that the team's viewpoint remains uncertain.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Well that's reassuring. 8O


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:34 pm 
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Tom Vandenhove wrote:
gpupdate wrote:
Renault warns suppliers of F1 exit
10 June 2009
It is believed that the Renault team has tipped off suppliers that it may not be present in Formula One next season, the German media reports. With Friday being the day that the FIA reveals the list of competitors for next season and the €45m budget cap still in place, Renault Sport is suspected to have informed partners that the team's viewpoint remains uncertain.



Even without the trouble with the FIA their entry would probably been doubtfull.

this is like the 3th year in a row or something rumors about Renault quiting pop up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:14 pm 
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I think they will stop with the team but will remain as a engine manufacturer considering they still got success with RBR. The most reasonable scenario will be that Briatore will keep the team with the engines but without the financial support. And looking at Alonso's open flirt's with Ferrari lately and ING leaving next year, I think it will be inevitable. The current director of Renault wasn't a big fan of F1 I believe.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Fish88 wrote:
I think they will stop with the team but will remain as a engine manufacturer considering they still got success with RBR.


Just like when Renault pulled out after the end of 1985 after Renault-powered Lotus cars kept embarrassing them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:00 pm 
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bigears wrote:
Fish88 wrote:
I think they will stop with the team but will remain as a engine manufacturer considering they still got success with RBR.


Just like when Renault pulled out after the end of 1985 after Renault-powered Lotus cars kept embarrassing them.


But that Lotus team happened to have Ayrton Senna... who won first two races of his career in very wet conditions...

Reminds me of someone...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:07 pm 
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And remaining a engine supplier isn't expensive nowadays considering the engine freeze at the moment.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:00 am 
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I'm really curious about tomorrow, this won't be a happy day if nothing happens today.

Autosport.com wrote:
Ferrari says it cannot be entered by FIA

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, June 10th 2009, 18:20 GMT

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali insists the FIA cannot include his outfit on the entry list for 2010 when it is published on Friday, unless the governing body has agreed to demands laid down by the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA).

With less than 48 hours to go until motor racing's governing body publishes the list of teams entered for the 2010 championship, there has been mounting speculation that Ferrari could controversially be part of the gang that is deemed to have an automatic entry.

This is because the team had made commitments with the FIA and Formula One Management several years ago about guaranteeing its presence in F1, in return for favourable commercial terms and a veto on technical regulations.

Domenicali joined a FOTA meeting in London on Wednesday to discuss the matter, as the teams' body prepared itself for Friday's announcement. Afterwards, Ferrari issued a statement saying that it could only be part of the entry list if the conditions it laid down on May 29 were met.

"Ferrari's position has not changed," Domenicali said. "Back on 29 May, we put in a conditional entry with the other teams that make up FOTA. Along with this entry, we put forward to the FIA a package of proposals which included among other elements, a significant reduction in costs.

"As always, we will do all we can to find a solution that is acceptable to all parties. If this is not possible, then the FIA will not be able to include Ferrari in the list of teams entered for the 2010 FIA Formula 1 World Championship."

The agreement at the centre of the latest argument was deemed valid by a French court last month, when Ferrari sought an injunction over the 2010 regulations being introduced. The courts ruled that only the time frame for sorting the matter out prevented Ferrari being given the opportunity to overturn the 2010 rules.

However, Ferrari insists now that the terms of the contract it had in place are no longer valid.

Speaking in an FIA press conference in Turkey last weekend, Domenicali said: "We had an agreement with the FIA but we felt that the obligations inside that agreement were breached, so the agreement is not valid anymore."


Autosport.com wrote:
Hill warns F1 not to repeat IRL mistake

By Edd Straw Wednesday, June 10th 2009, 17:18 GMT

Former world champion Damon Hill has warned that a breakaway championship set up by the current Formula 1 manufacturers would be very damaging to the popularity of the sport.

The ongoing dispute between the FIA and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) has given rise to threats of a breakaway grand prix series, but Hill has warned that the sport should learn from the example of American single-seater racing.

The IRL IndyCar Series split from the CART-run Champ Car World Series in 1996, leading to two top-line open wheel categories running in North America and allowing NASCAR to cement its position as the most popular form of motor racing in that part of the world.

"You only have to look over the pond to see what happens when you split a championship," said Hill. "It's difficult enough to draw people into one particular sport, so what will they make of two separate championships? It would just dilute it."

Hill also warned that, however slim the prospects of a breakaway happening might be, the off-track politics could cause some fans to lose interest in F1.

"Yes - and it has been getting worse over the last few years on that front," said Hill when asked by AUTOSPORT whether the off-track arguments are detracting from the sport.

"The last few years have been really appalling and lots of people have asked questions about the administration of the sport. That's what the issue is all about. It's entertaining in the same way that the Jerry Springer Show is - not for the right reasons - so it's a turn-off as well."

Hill, who is also president of the British Racing Drivers' Club, the owner of Silverstone, emphasised that the circuit, which has lost the rights to the British Grand Prix from 2010 to Donington Park, has not been asked to put on a race for an alternative series.

"No, I don't know anything of the sort," said Hill of whether discussions had been held. "Clearly, it has occurred to everyone that there may be a need for venues if there is going to be another championship.

"But we value our relationship with F1 since 1950 and we want that tradition to continue. But we're a business too so if something came along then clearly there would have to be discussion.

"From our point of view, the circuit has to survive so we might be placed in that position. But I'm a traditionalist. I believe in the FIA Formula 1 World Championship and going back to 1950 that is the thing with the continuity to it."


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:52 pm 
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FOTA. :flag: :thumbsup:

Autosport.com wrote:
Mosley to meet with teams today

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, June 11th 2009, 11:12 GMT

Max MosleyFormula 1 teams are due to meet with FIA president Max Mosley in London today to try and reach a last-minute deal over entries for next year, AUTOSPORT has learned, with the governing body having made clear the compromises it is willing to offer.

With the entry list for the 2010 championship due to be announced by the FIA tomorrow morning, efforts are increasing to reach a resolution that will head off the threat of current manufacturer teams walking away from F1.

Although there have been suggestions in the past few days that the two sides are edging near a resolution, there still appears to be differences between the two parties about the way forward for next year.

However, AUTOSPORT has learned that Mosley is willing to soften the FIA's approach to next year - which includes scrapping a two-tier category – even though he insists a budget cap must be in place in 2010.

In a letter Mosley sent to Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo following his last meeting with teams in Monaco, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, Mosley said that there was some ground for manoeuvre in what the FIA would be willing to accept for next year.

"We can agree that all teams race under the same 2010 rules," said Mosley, referring to the original proposal for a two-tier F1 that had been a major bone of contention for a lot of teams.

"These would be as published, but with the technical and sporting advantages originally offered to cost-cap teams deleted."

Rather than having performance benefits, the FIA said it was willing to give new teams the opportunity to work on technology transfer deals with established outfits – as has been hinted about by Frank Williams in recent days.

Mosley added: "Instead of these advantages, we will facilitate know-how transfer between certain current teams and new entrants at least for 2010 and possibly for 2011."

One thing Mosley is not willing to back down on though is the introduction of a budget cap – even if the figure is made very high for next year.

He said he was willing to propose: "A cap in 2010. This could be as high as 100 million Euros, but we must have a cap and we must have certainty... For 2011, again we must have certainty with a cap at £40 million (or if preferred 45 million Euros)."

However, Mosley said that a compromise could be introduced whereby one highly paid member of staff would be allowed to be outside the budget cap – which would help those outfits who have star names, like Adrian Newey or Ross Brawn, on board.

Furthermore, the FIA said it was willing to sign a Concorde Agreement 'broadly' along the lines of the version sent to it prior to the Monaco Grand Prix, plus a renaming of the cost cap – which has been a big issue for the teams.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:23 pm 
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The FIA is suggesting that a solution was very close but that some teams are preventing it. :o

Autosport.com wrote:
FIA: FOTA members preventing deal

By Jonathan Noble Monday, June 15th 2009, 10:24 GMT

The FIA has blamed factions within the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) for the failure to find a settlement in the row over the future of the sport - after revealing on Monday that it believed it had an agreement in place last week.

AUTOSPORT understands that Ross Brawn is meeting the FIA today to discuss the situation and finalise what was agreed in last week's meeting.

In a statement issued on Monday morning, the FIA said that at a get-together with four members of FOTA last week a deal was reached for a way forward - but this subsequently failed to reach fruition.

"During the meeting FOTA acknowledged that the FIA wanted to encourage the introduction of new teams in the championship to maintain its vitality and economic viability in the long term," said the FIA.

"Agreement was reached on technical regulations for 2010 which offered assistance for new teams from the currently competing teams in several key areas.

"It was also agreed that the objectives of FOTA and the FIA on cost reduction were now very close and that financial experts from both sides should meet at the earliest opportunity to finalise the details.

"It was proposed by the FIA that any perceived governance and stability issues could best be eliminated by extending the 1998 Concorde Agreement until 2014 thus avoiding lengthy negotiations for a new agreement. This was well received by those present who undertook to report the suggestion to the other FOTA members."

The FIA has blamed members of FOTA for failing to act on this agreement - and claims that some are determined to see talks fail even though this will hurt F1.

"The FIA believed it had participated in a very constructive meeting with a large measure of agreement. The FIA was therefore astonished to learn that certain FOTA members not present at the meeting have falsely claimed that nothing was agreed and that the meeting had been a waste of time.

"There is clearly an element in FOTA which is determined to prevent any agreement being reached regardless of the damage this may cause to the sport."


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