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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:07 am 
Just found this on BBC website, not sure if anyone else has seen it but it makes for an interesting read!...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 972046.stm


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:00 pm 
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if Button wins the next three rounds (which is highly probable, likely even), he would only need to score an avarage of 4,4 points per race in the 13 following races to match the points of Hamilton's 2008 championship winning year! 8O


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:59 pm 
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your first word is the most important of your post


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Hamilton's 2008 Tally was incredibly low for a modern day championship winning season though. Only 2003 had comparitively low points tallies. Depends on how competitive the field remains.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Omega wrote:
your first word is the most important of your post

lol

Quote:
Besides, one very experienced F1 aerodynamicist told me the following: "In aerodynamic terms, seven tenths of a second implies about 70kg of extra downforce for a given drag.

"The size of the diffuser as defined in the regulations means it creates only about 10% of the car's total downforce - about 120kg.

"If their diffuser is worth seven tenths of a second it implies that they are getting 60% more downforce from their diffuser than anyone else. That is ludicrous.

"I'd say if you could get a diffuser to be giving you an extra 20kg over everyone else - about 0.2 seconds-worth - you would be doing incredibly well."


I was counting on a Red Bull and BMW catch up when they get their new diffuser, cause I read Toyota and Ferrari crew estimating the gain between 0.5 to 0.7 seconds. The BBC text, as can be seen, says it is not like that.

I think it is wrong that the 09 cars only generates 1200Kgs of downforce(even with the aero reduction), but this is only my supposition. In the 08 cars, the "under" part of the car generated 40% percent of the total, but I don't know if that is generated only or almost only by the diffuser. If it is, so probably the BBC text is wrong and it generates something close to 40% which would match the other teams expectations. This "experienced aerodynamicist" BBC talked to can be someone who no longer works in F1 and is not aware of the current aspects of a F1 aerodynamic.

This BBC text seemed biased imo, it only mentions that Brawn was much faster in Q3 which is true, but in Q2 the difference to Red Bull, BMW and Williams was about 3.5 tenths and 2 of this teams still don't have the better diffuser. Also why the BBC text didn't mention that in the race Button's pace was not so superior(if it was better at all) than Vettel's and Kubica's?!

The text appears as claiming "another brit is favourite for the WDC", which is true but I don't know if the others can't catch up. Even Button, himself, believe the other will achieve Brawn's speed, so I'm skeptical about this text, although I like Brawn GP.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Brawn are rumoured to have hidden their pace in Melbourne throughout the race - read The Cock's blog: http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/ (which by the way, is a surprisingly good read).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Wouldn't surprise me that they didn't go flat out, they did have concerns about reliability.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:47 pm 
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And also Button was never more than 5/6 seconds ahead of Vettel at the first half of the race.

He was being conservative because of the lack of testing in the car and he did the same with his tyres at the end of the race.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:56 pm 
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I don't feel it's a very safe lead however. I mean a small spin and he could have find himself down in 2nd or 3rd.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:14 am 
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You just have to think about the time lost at the last pitstop, that could have been the race lost there. I don't think Button will be as conservative in Malaysia.

As it turns out, Kovalainen damaged Barrichello's diffuser so he wasn't as fast as he could have been.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:35 am 
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noikeee wrote:
Brawn are rumoured to have hidden their pace in Melbourne throughout the race - read The Cock's blog: http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/ (which by the way, is a surprisingly good read).


Yeah, see, I hear that this isn't really the case and that Vettel really had them worried. The safety car did them no favours really and allowed Kubica to overcome a 30-second deficit, but although they had the pace to beat the Red Bull they weren't really holding that much back, if anything.

As for Brawn being broke next week, doubt it; the 275 people they made redundant yesterday should keep wage costs down...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:38 am 
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I hope they weren't anyway, because things will be far more exciting if Melbourne showed their true race pace compared to the rest. Quick, but not unbeatable.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:48 pm 
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noikeee, I rather trust in MaTT's suggestion than in JA's.

MaTT, Before the safety car Kubica had a 30 seconds gap to Button because the pole had pitted already, but his race pace was really good and if Brawn really didn't hide anything, they are not that far ahead. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Well, JA's quoting from the Guardian who are presumably quoting from a BrawnGP employee, and I'm fairly certain that MaTT is getting his information from at least one other BrawnGP employee.

So one of those two sources from the same camp is lying.

Either way, Vettel won't likely be an issue this Sunday at the least, seeing as he'll start 11th at best.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:20 pm 
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RtN wrote:

Either way, Vettel won't likely be an issue this Sunday at the least, seeing as he'll start 11th at best.



He'll be a threat for points :) :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:42 pm 
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MaTT wrote:
noikeee wrote:
Brawn are rumoured to have hidden their pace in Melbourne throughout the race - read The Cock's blog: http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/ (which by the way, is a surprisingly good read).


Yeah, see, I hear that this isn't really the case and that Vettel really had them worried. The safety car did them no favours really and allowed Kubica to overcome a 30-second deficit, but although they had the pace to beat the Red Bull they weren't really holding that much back, if anything.

As for Brawn being broke next week, doubt it; the 275 people they made redundant yesterday should keep wage costs down...


While I don't wish bad on Brawn, I really hope you're right, otherwise at least the start of the season is going to be very boring.

As for Sepang, I don't think Vettel is going for the win with a 10 place penalty, but Webber is going to do good things unless he gets in the middle of a flying Rubens/Heikki/Heidi combo again. Watch out for Toyota too, Glock's fuel-corrected time in Melbourne would've put him 3rd place on the grid.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:40 pm 
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It will be interesting to see how Williams shape up as well. They have shown "pace" at 3 circuits so far, however Rosberg showed well on occasion last year, but was nowhere at others. Admittedly McLaren look like their nowhere at Melbourne, but a few lucky breaks and things look good.

To me there's only two teams I am generally sure they are competitive and that's Brawn and Toyota. Ferrari looked good and bad in equal measures in Melbourne, Red Bull hadn't shown anything until Melbourne. Were they a sleeper or has Newey designed a star? BMW have been unspectacular. Certainly don't appear to have a great pay off for starting early last season, Renault looked horrible, but they too seemed to be there on Sunday.

Even Force India kept up with the middle pack on the Sunday I believe.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:21 pm 
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Artur Craft wrote:
noikeee, I rather trust in MaTT's suggestion than in JA's.

MaTT, Before the safety car Kubica had a 30 seconds gap to Button because the pole had pitted already, but his race pace was really good and if Brawn really didn't hide anything, they are not that far ahead. ;)


That 30 seconds was the gap to Robert after Jenson pitted - before that it was almost a minute :).

As for the pace, yeah - Jenson wasn't having to do qualifying laps all the time, but it was not easy and Vettel was very close. They could control him (and I suspect that they would have been further ahead if it had not been for the safety car), but it wasn't an easy job.

Sepang will be different obviously, as it is a completely different kind of circuit. Personally hoping for another 18 points in the Brawn account, but a good race would be nice too :).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:47 pm 
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I disagree with Ryan, Toyota is behind Red Bull, Williams and BMW imo. In Q2 there is no fuel excuse, and afair Toyota did two fast laps in Q2, while Kubica only did one, and it was sufficient to be ahead of both Toyotas.

Must be remembered that in Q3, Kubica as the pole himself said, he would have been thrid in the grid, he lost time in S3 due to Rosberg, that's why he went a bit lighter, to ensure the 3th place. About the race, the minute Jenson had of advantadge to Robert was not only due to car's performances, the pole started with the soft tyres, when in the second stint, BMW seemed faster than BGP and Red Bull. I must say I got surprised by BMW's performance in Q2,Q3 and the race, since their FPs were horrible.

One may also point out that Toyota and Williams have a disadvantadge cause they are already using the better diffuser, while the others have a big "step up" to make(Ferrari, Red Bull, BMW....)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Typical British media :lol: Set to dominate F1 after one race, awesome.


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