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buemi reckons no rb5 until march, with 1 test to get it ready.
why. the. fuck

so yet another year of lack of preparation...unreliability and the like

some teams will never learn...

So what were they doing for the 2nd half of this season when they stopped working on their current car?

Same as Honda throughout 2007 and 2008, and looked where it got them

And now Vettel is stuck in a team that will suck massively.

Ferrari is mostly likely launching on January 15, the same day that Toyota is scheduled to reveal images of its TF109.

On the following day, the new McLaren will be launched at its Woking headquarters, and on January 19 the 2009-specification Williams and Renault cars will be test-debuted in Portugal.

On January 20, BMW Sauber's F1. 09 will run for the first time at Valencia's Ricardo Tormo circuit.

Yeah thats crap, i'll be hoping for the miracal.

If Red Bull turns out to be bad again then I doubt other teams will forget about Vettel. I'm sure BMW would be keen to re-secure his services, if not McLaren or Ferrari. It only takes money to get a driver out of their contract

For how long did Vettel sign with Red Bull anyway?

I believe for two years, 2009 and 2010. The same length as Massa and Raikkonen at Ferrari, and Alonso at Renault? I expect a lot of changes in 2011.

Vettel will be heading for Ferrari, I think

Looking at it logically, Lewis is in at McLaren for a long time yet, perhaps permanently (although I do hope he does a Michael and changes teams for the fun of it, I don't see it happening - he's too closely tied to the team). McLaren will be looking for lesser drivers - not necessarily not to match Lewis but as a better barometer for car performance, as I should think Lewis probably outdrivers the machinery and thus hides its flaws. Vettel won't go there unless Mercedes specifically ask for him, but I don't see them necessarily going for him as there are other Germans who would fit that role perfectly, such as Rosberg or Glock or even Heidfeld

I think Alonso will now stay at Renault long terms providing they don't pull out. By 2011 I think Ferrari will be looking for a fresh(ish) youngster and after 10 years in F1, Alonso won't fit that bill. However, Vettel will still only be 24. I think he would be a perfect choice for Ferrari. But it could depend on how the next seasons go as to what happens. If Renault go backwards (which I very much doubt), Alonso will want out and I doubt there is a team in the paddock bar McLaren who wouldn't want him. If Kimi underperforms again next year, not only will the pressure be on Ferrari to sack him, they WILL sack him. Massa has improved enormously and is far better value for money

It's a tough one. I see Alonso as the modern Senna - he's a passionate guy, a nice guy, a brilliant driver, but he has a tendency to open his mouth which has got him into trouble with the bigwigs of the sport and his own team, unlike Lewis, who is very much like Michael and gives nothing away and tows the party line. Not only do I see Alonso as the current Senna, I see the Alonso to Ferrari thing as comparative to Senna and Williams - Senna nearly signed for Williams, Alonso nearly signed for Ferrari as far back as 2001 as a tester, and everyone's been banging on about it ever since, including the drivers themselves, until with Ayrton it actually happened. Mixed up in all this you have Massa, a quick guy who has ironed out his mistakes at exactly the right time, like Mika did in the late 90s, when McLaren became a force. Kimi is a strange case - he blows very hot when the car's working exactly as he wants but very cold when it isn't. Massa is actually quite similar, and it'll be interesting to see who comes out best with the new cars. Vettel could easily overshadow all of them, going on his performances in the wet and qualifying throughout the past couple of years. This is a guy who jumped in a Sauber at the age of 19 with minimal prior experience and went fastest of all in practice. Then you have Kubica and Sauber coming into this - Robert is another one that has been linked to Ferrari. And then you have the other guys that will play a role, the lesser drivers, who will be in demand as number 2s - the guys like Glock, Rosberg, Kovalainen, and perhaps Piquet in the future. There is not room for everyone at the top. And then added to the equation is the economic uncertainty

Although we've seen few changes for next year, we sit at an absolutely fascinating point in F1 history. Not since the early 90s have we been in a position like this. 2009 will be a fascinating year, on and off track

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Btw the mods will be sorting out the 2009 thread, so please do not start it

I still think Kimi at his best [Late 2007. Mid 2005.] is better than anyone else on the grid including Hamilton and Alonso but its all depedant on the cars nowadays how he performs. You have Hamilton/Alonso and Kimi as Tier 1a. With Massa/Kubica and Vettel just a little bit behind as say 1b.
Then theres no one else bothering about when it comes to potential championships with that lot still around in my opinion.

Yeah but Kimi's only at his best when he has a car that suits him. This year the car didn't suit him and he couldn't drive around that. The best drivers have been able to drive around problems and cars that don't suit them, such as Michael, Senna and Alonso

Tier 1b might as well be Tier 2. The thing is people are saying Massa is no longer a Tier 2 driver, and yet it is still plain to see that right now as it stands he is not on the level of Hamilton and Alonso - I don't think many people would deny that. He could mature further like Hakkinen did - Mika was no great shake in the mid 90s when the McLaren wasn't great and Coulthard was the one who was tipped to be a future champion. But he ironed out his mistakes through 97 and ended up being the best driver in the best team at the right moment, in the same way Massa developed through 2006 and came good in 2007 and 2008. He could develop further and go on to match them but people will not forget his erratic nature in the past

The way I see it is

Tier 1
Alonso
Hamilton

Tier 2
Raikkonen
Massa
Kubica (as it stands)
Vettel (as it stands)
Webber

Tier 3
Trulli
Kovalainen
Heidfeld
Rosberg

What I'm aiming for this year as a New Year's Resolution is to concentrate on finding out why in order to understand how good they all are

I actually think the only one that I'm trully convinced at the moment is Tier 1 (though this is through my beliefs of what Tier 1 means), is Alonso.

There's still something about Hamilton that makes me unsure. Has he dragged lesser cars close to/and beating the Ferrari's because he is that talented, or are the cars practically the same and he is the same level as Massa and Raikkonen.

Well, going by what Irvine has said about Michael in the past, often the best method is to look at the second driver's performances. Michael may have been winning races in the 96 Ferrari but Irvine was back in the pack - that's how far Michael outdrove his machinery. With Lewis, although it wasn't a particularly bad car, it wasn't as good as the Ferraris for all bar 1 or 2 races, and he beat them. His drive at Silverstone was sublime, the best individual drive for years. There was no one on his level

I think it's very close between Alonso and Hamilton. Lewis is becoming a Michael-esque kind of figure - people don't want to accept he's that good because they don't like him. The excuses I've read have been poor - all drivers make mistakes, he can only drive with what he's given, and he doesn't need to be an interesting character off track. He has been consistently quick in almost every race he's driven in with the sort of consistency only the best have ever delivered - you see Massa, Kimi, Kubica et all having a good race and then next time a disappointing one. I don't think he's the out-and-out quickest driver in the field but he has made the best use of his talents over the last 2 years and should really be a double world champion already. The only people that are going to stop him from going on a Michael-esque run of success are Ferrari and Alonso

Alonso is the benchmark in F1 and Lewis has matched him over a season in the same car. He got into his head, exposed his weaknesses and beat him. He is ahead of him in the championship table and he forced him out of McLaren. Oh and this was in his first year in F1, by the way

true, but he had a very competitive team mate in 2007 and he was never a long distance behind, if behind at all, at any stage in the season, including when McLaren were being accused of actually favouring Alonso. I think he's up there in "Tier 1". what im not convinced about is kimi being a level "down". To me after the first few races he seemed to loose his motiviation for some reason or other. sort of like the kimi from 2006. get that motivation in like in 2005 and i think he'll even beat Alonso and Lewis. Unfortunately for him, unlike these two, to me at least, he doesnt seem to be able to build a team around him. like Schumi did with Ferrari, Lewis is doing with McLaren and Alonso with Renault.

Whilst we also probably have the same flaw to some level, losing interest and become disillusioned because of performance I believe is a fundamental flaw. Schumacher, when Ferrari had a problem, he would be there racking up the miles trying to solve it apparently and more often than not, they did. I believe I once said away back about Peterson-type and analytical-type, but not quite as quick, by the end of the season the analytical type would be getting better results than Peterson, though Peterson would have been faster initially. It's all very well getting the results when the car is the bees knees, but just disappearing when it has faults.

I think what holds back Hamilton in my is that he always had that box seat in the past two years and he has shown the speed. There's just something, perhaps the overall completeness that comes from facing different situations that would make me class him a Tier 1 driver. I've no doubt in time he will probably reach that Tier 1 that I talk about, but he hasn't ticked, some because he hasn't had the chance to, for me to tick all his boxes.

Kimi, Massa, Vettel, Kubica same tier as Webber? McLaren is made in a favour of Lewis, just like Renault is made for Alonso and as Ferrari was made for Schumacher. It's pretty clear that as Renault as McLaren have their no.1 driver while Ferrari doesn't. Speaking of tier 1. I have never seen Lewis driving around with problem so I don't know how can you put him in the same tier as Alonso. Yeah Kimi's season was a shit but it's pretty clear that everyone would have that kind of problems if car wouldn't suit him and when they made a car back to suit him, he was faster than Massa. Alonso was owned last year by a rookie because of that.

I suppose it's something you can only really judge for sure in hindsight after the drivers in question are either not at their peak anymore or are no longer racing in F1. We can't really judge Lewis' ultimate ability until he has stopped

And yes, I believe that given a chance Webber would be on the same level as Massa. It's not hard to imagine - he's got the pace, he doesn't make many mistakes and has challenged the best drivers, for instance at Monaco 2 years ago when he was battling with Kimi and Alonso for the win and may well have won in a really poor car

I put Hamilton at least on a par with Alonso based on their 2007 performances, although Alonso is definitely more "complete". I can't help thinking Mr Raikkonen may find 2009 to be a much better year than 2008 was though, and by the end of it he will be back in people's minds as a Tier 1 driver.