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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:06 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
gkmotorsport wrote:
Coldtyre wrote:
That's before digging in gravel :o

If this was 20 years ago, he'd have hopped on a moped to go back to the pits, and proudly show his scraped helmet top in an interview (if not in the T-car). They did the same comedy with Mick at SA, only to see him smiling an hour later, and jogging the next morning with a big smile on his face.

This being 2022, he was nursed into a pram while perfectly conscious and uninjured, and we won't get any further info or visuals.


He almost certainly triggered the G-force sensors, and concussion (not to mention other kinds of head injury) frequently don't show up straight after they happen.

Instead, we got footage of him talking to people before the race had even ended, and plenty of replays from plenty of angles. Sorry, taking potential head injuries seriously isn't pussyfooting.


This is one area where those "The world is terrible now and it was so much better and correct when I was a child" people are just plain wrong
British TV cut away from Senna's accident almost as soon as it happened and showed none of the aftermath, so maybe it's just normal for me because we were ahead of the curve on that one, but ever since the rest of the world got the graphic medical rescue attempts on Senna including a pile of his blood on the track, there has been a massive pushback in F1 circles about showing incidents too graphically

The time Kimi Broke a mechanic's leg, that time Webber shot a tyre at a cameraman and of course, Bianchi's accident have been treated in the same way, to the point that none of us really knew something had happened in Bianchi's case bar an incident with a Sauber that started it

The directors have a hell of a balance between not wanting to be too graphic and voyeuristic and still trying to give us good news if/when it comes, it's a fucking hard job, probably the hardest F1 TV directing gets, and for one wouldn't want to do it
I have no interest in seeing close up pictures of a driver being worked on, I've been at speedway meetings where a rider has been hurt and I just do not get the crowd wanting to crowd around and get a peak at what's happening and therefore making it harder for the paramedics to do their job/get access to the injured rider.
Even something like George running to the scene today, nice thought and ok I see why he was concerned, but you're NOT a trained medical professional so anything you do do will make the situation worse, clear out of the way and let the medical staff do their job please

I've also unfortunately witnessed a fatal incident at Birmingham and all I wanted to do was go home and forget that I ever liked Motorsport in the first place.
Sadly we had to stay at the track almost within eye line of the....incident in case the police wanted to interview us (And we had to pretend we might be carrying on with the event too so the crowd didn't go home and block up the access routes for the ambulance and police to get to us, standard procedure when there's been a fatality at a live event, sadly)

FOM did the right thing today. I'm sure the main issue was the awkwardness of getting Zhou out and the Halo meaning he couldn't climb out by himself and the car position meaning none of the lifting devices the marshals might use to right a flipped car would've worked either.
They didn't want to risk injuring him further by messing up the rescue so just took their sweet time with it
Quite right too

I don't know what you all want to see in these situations, but I'm ok waiting until the driver is confirmed OK before replays rather than the NBC way of showing replays even after we knew Dan Wheldon had been killed, will never forgive them for that.

Showing a large angle of where the car is. There is nothing graphic in that. Replays can wait, and even then, IMHO if there is nothing graphic to be seen, replays can be shown even of fatal crashes.

It's fair being disturbed by seeing non-graphic, fatal crashes. But in my opinion that crosses in the unreasonable expectation territory, where it's up to the person to take action and not watch that replay, not the broadcast. Again, non-graphic like today's. Putting this at the same level as a puddle of blood trackside is disingenuous.

To me, what is worse than seeing a driver getting injured/killed, is not knowing how it happened. So don't hold the footage from people like me, just... don't watch when the replay logo comes up.

I mean, it's motor racing. It feels hyporcritical to me to watch it, enjoy it, and turning a camera away or a blind eye to it when it tries to take one of the drivers. It's like trying to enjoy the pros and ignore the reality of the cons while they're happening right there outside the field of view . It's mental to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:28 pm 
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Hey guys I went to bed because for some reason the race started an hour later than expected what did I miss oh my god fghjdsgjljkhngjinbwe;kib


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:48 pm 
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Waiting for the documentary "Ferrari or : How I learned how to stop winning and love losing Championships"

Seriously, it is like they are actively trying to lose the Championship. As soon as Ocon was teetering out it was plain as day that there would be a safety car if he parked it on the track anywhere near when he did.

They didn't want to lose track position to Hamilton, but he would have been in exactly the same boat as Charles. A sitting duck. Charles would have at least had the chance to attack for position, rather than trying to hold on to it.

I am interested in how they operationally run their live strategies. Because it seems like they set a strategy, kick their feet up, hope nothing happens and then hit the panic button if a safety car falls into their pre defined race strategy. Where as it seems Red Bull are lap by lap corner by corner monitoring theirs wanting for something to happen.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:57 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
I am interested in how they operationally run their live strategies.


Ever watched Wheel of Fortune?

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I hope for his sake that there was something wrong with Ricciardo's car, otherwise he was beaten on merit by Latifi.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:05 am 
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He had no DRS after lap 31. But still.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:25 am 
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DinoMarko93 wrote:
Max defening against Mick was disgusting, he knows that it's Mick, a pretty much nice guy, without points yet, and won't risk it. If it was Latifi or someone not so aware and talented, both would be out. But Max has overdone it, and did it a little bit too much times


Every point counts, as last year... ya know... kinda showed

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:28 am 
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Albon posted a picture of himself on a hospital bed. Looks like he end up in a worse condition than Zhou actually.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:59 am 
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EAS wrote:
Albon posted a picture of himself on a hospital bed. Looks like he end up in a worse condition than Zhou actually.

Yeah, it's quite often the case that the driver having a spectacular flip just walks away, while seemingly minor crash turns out to be quite bad because of the lack of energy dissipation. That's why I was quite confident today that Zhou would be alright (before knowing about the roll hoop failure), because there was no high-speed impact into a wall.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:48 am 
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I noticed something on Alfa Romeo's roll hoop. It's not the classic A-frame design, but rather a thin beam.

I remember not thinking much of it before, but looking back at Zhou's crash it's surprising that such an important element has this much freedom in design shape.

Image

This doesn't seem as strong as the A frame for lateral impacts.
It's thicker, but bending strength is power of 3 of the distance to center of the beam, it's more effective to have a wide base even with thinner material. I'm armchair engineering here, but I wonder if the regulation only imposes height and top weight/impact, or if it has a side load specified.

I hope we will get the final word on this, but I wonder if a Ferrari wouldn't have fared better against the scraping - we've seen pre-Halo Indycars with A-frames flip cleanly at 220mph on tarmac from higher up (Sam Hornish jr, Marco Andretti, Helio) and their hoops protected the driver.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:01 am 
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gkmotorsport wrote:
Karan wrote:
I'll admit I'm often critical of various Hamilton's off-track comments/activities, but he demonstrated today why he's still one of the best wheel-to-wheel racers in F1. He was in the thick of it at both the red flag restart and the safety car restart, getting mugged by other cars both times, scrapping in close quarters and still managed to come out of it unscathed and didn't punt anyone off either. Impressive driving for sure and a well deserved podium.


I would go so far to say that Hamilton hasn't raced this well wheel-to-wheel for years. Last year he definitely fell into a tit-for-tat mentality with Max and pulled off numerous moves that were quite rash and nothing like the guy who made half of the GP2 field look ordinary. Before that, he spent a few years either not needing to pass anybody or having a car that just couldn't cope in traffic.

Today was quite a refreshing sight, from my point of view, but then you could probably say the same for several of the people he battled with.
Agreed. After last year's shenanigans, I strongly feared that the best drivers in the world were quite the opposite. But yesterday's amazing battling has restored my faith in F1's drivers, and highlighted the cheap tactics of Verstappen. Last year he brought Hamilton down to his level, and they were both doing really silly billy decisions when in close proximity to each other. They were both guilty of that at different points, there's no denying that. Especially when you see how Lewis was able to hold the inside line through Copse on lap 48 without drifting wide and sending Leclerc into the barriers :whistling:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:34 am 
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good race, definitely a track that promotes side by side

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:42 am 
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I loved how Alonso just cheekily stuck his nose in to get involved.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:50 am 
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Coldtyre wrote:
I noticed something on Alfa Romeo's roll hoop. It's not the classic A-frame design, but rather a thin beam.

I remember not thinking much of it before, but looking back at Zhou's crash it's surprising that such an important element has this much freedom in design shape.

Image

This doesn't seem as strong as the A frame for lateral impacts.
It's thicker, but bending strength is power of 3 of the distance to center of the beam, it's more effective to have a wide base even with thinner material. I'm armchair engineering here, but I wonder if the regulation only imposes height and top weight/impact, or if it has a side load specified.

I hope we will get the final word on this, but I wonder if a Ferrari wouldn't have fared better against the scraping - we've seen pre-Halo Indycars with A-frames flip cleanly at 220mph on tarmac from higher up (Sam Hornish jr, Marco Andretti, Helio) and their hoops protected the driver.


I think the difference in design could be a factor too. Apparently they are tested in all directions including backwards, but it seems that any rotation on impact could result in a very different distribution of forces on this shape than on the 'traditional' one.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:51 am 
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webbsy wrote:
I loved how Alonso just cheekily stuck his nose in to get involved.




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:22 pm 
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some interesting statistics after this race

Hamilton now have 16 consecutive seasons with at least a lap leaded, passing Michael Schumacher in another record

Fernando Alonso now holds the biggest distance covered in F1 races, passing Kimi Raikkonen

Carlos Sainz is the first son of a rally world champion to claim a F1 victory, also the first time a son of a Dakar Rally winner wins at F1

also the first win for a spaniard after 9 years

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:41 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
Hamilton now have 16 consecutive seasons with at least a lap leaded, passing Michael Schumacher in another record

The most interesting record to follow for Hamilton this year will be winning a race in every season he competed, as he did so far.

I actually think this record is a better indication of his motivation and skill, more so than "only" the titles. He was in mostly top teams, but some years he had to really fight for those victories in lesser cars, and this year is one of them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:59 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
Waiting for the documentary "Ferrari or : How I learned how to stop winning and love losing Championships"

Seriously, it is like they are actively trying to lose the Championship. As soon as Ocon was teetering out it was plain as day that there would be a safety car if he parked it on the track anywhere near when he did.

They didn't want to lose track position to Hamilton, but he would have been in exactly the same boat as Charles. A sitting duck. Charles would have at least had the chance to attack for position, rather than trying to hold on to it.

I am interested in how they operationally run their live strategies. Because it seems like they set a strategy, kick their feet up, hope nothing happens and then hit the panic button if a safety car falls into their pre defined race strategy. Where as it seems Red Bull are lap by lap corner by corner monitoring theirs wanting for something to happen.


Apparently their reasoning for not pitting Leclerc was that there wasn't enough time to double stack, so they chose to pit Sainz because he was on the older tyres. Which only makes sense if you completely ignore the championship battle, which Ferrari seem to be doing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:13 pm 
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Coldtyre wrote:
LucasWheldon wrote:
Hamilton now have 16 consecutive seasons with at least a lap leaded, passing Michael Schumacher in another record

The most interesting record to follow for Hamilton this year will be winning a race in every season he competed, as he did so far.

I actually think this record is a better indication of his motivation and skill, more so than "only" the titles. He was in mostly top teams, but some years he had to really fight for those victories in lesser cars, and this year is one of them.


there are three tracks that he can surely win at. Montreal and Silverstone are gone, so I'm quite sure he'll win at Hungaroring

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:00 pm 
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Schumifan wrote:
webbsy wrote:
Waiting for the documentary "Ferrari or : How I learned how to stop winning and love losing Championships"

Seriously, it is like they are actively trying to lose the Championship. As soon as Ocon was teetering out it was plain as day that there would be a safety car if he parked it on the track anywhere near when he did.

They didn't want to lose track position to Hamilton, but he would have been in exactly the same boat as Charles. A sitting duck. Charles would have at least had the chance to attack for position, rather than trying to hold on to it.

I am interested in how they operationally run their live strategies. Because it seems like they set a strategy, kick their feet up, hope nothing happens and then hit the panic button if a safety car falls into their pre defined race strategy. Where as it seems Red Bull are lap by lap corner by corner monitoring theirs wanting for something to happen.


Apparently their reasoning for not pitting Leclerc was that there wasn't enough time to double stack, so they chose to pit Sainz because he was on the older tyres. Which only makes sense if you completely ignore the championship battle, which Ferrari seem to be doing.

They're so used to losing, they don't even realise they could be in a championship battle.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:49 pm 
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The racing after the last restart is the best I've ever seen in F1. Completely the opposite of the viewpoint I usually have of the series.

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