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Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
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Author:  micha [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Afro_dud wrote:
After seeing Lewis' onboard for the first time, he was nowhere near the first apex kerb.....


In lap 1 he knew how to give Norris enough space. Just like with leclerc in Silverstone
Author:  webbsy [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
UK Sky Sports is almost unwatchable with their "analysis". Especially Lazenby. How does that man still have a job.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
micha wrote:
Afro_dud wrote:
After seeing Lewis' onboard for the first time, he was nowhere near the first apex kerb.....


In lap 1 he knew how to give Norris enough space. Just like with leclerc in Silverstone

It's almost as if space and respect is earned on the race track,, and given differently depending on who you're racing.
Author:  pimmy [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Much like Hungary, an absolutely brilliant result!
Author:  Karan [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
When watching it live, it looked like a racing incident to me, but after watching the multiple replays, that's definitely on Hamilton. He swerved to the left even coming out of the pits and Verstappen had to go evasive with half his car off track. And then Hamilton went extremely deep into the corner and clearly left him little to no space. All he had to do was tuck it into the apex and he would've still been ahead coming out of the corner. Verstappen stoutly stood his ground and ultimately he was entitled to that space. Unfortunately, the sausage kerb worsened the final result, but nonetheless that's on Hamilton. No doubt he was still seeing the red mist after L1.

Having said that, Verstappen should've expected that Hamilton wasn't going to make it easy for him and kept one eye on the championship and taken the escape road to concede the position. Live to fight another day and come back at Hamilton later in the race.
Author:  DinoMarko93 [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Norris has a huge respect for Hamilton and almost never fights him (remember Austria), today was the first time he really fought him.
Verstappen on the other hand is overly aggressive, but without that he wouldn't be anywhere near his levels of driving and championship standings.
Toto said it was a tactical foul, Lewis was always in front and so on.
My opinion is, Max had the right to go there and try the move, Lewis could have played it smart, the Merc was faster anyway, he could just let him go deep into turn 2 and then get him at turn 3-4 easily with the draft. But the Silverstone crash changed the whole game.
Author:  Gaara [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Coldtyre wrote:
micha wrote:
Afro_dud wrote:
After seeing Lewis' onboard for the first time, he was nowhere near the first apex kerb.....


In lap 1 he knew how to give Norris enough space. Just like with leclerc in Silverstone

It's almost as if space and respect is earned on the race track,, and given differently depending on who you're racing.


Race others how they race you.
Author:  Gaara [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
And to think, people had already written Ricciardo off at McLaren.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Add today's turn 4 incident between Hamilton and Verstappen to the two shown here below, and you will understand why Hamilton left no space today.

I find it hypocritical and obnoxious from Max to ask for space in that position when he consistenly gives none to anyone.

If he had some self awareness and less blind entitlement, he'd have conceded the corner, seen the squeeze coming, and cut the run-off like Hamilton did, every time. It was about time someone stood their ground to him.
Author:  webbsy [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Karan wrote:
When watching it live, it looked like a racing incident to me, but after watching the multiple replays, that's definitely on Hamilton. He swerved to the left even coming out of the pits and Verstappen had to go evasive with half his car off track. And then Hamilton went extremely deep into the corner and clearly left him little to no space. All he had to do was tuck it into the apex and he would've still been ahead coming out of the corner. Verstappen stoutly stood his ground and ultimately he was entitled to that space. Unfortunately, the sausage kerb worsened the final result, but nonetheless that's on Hamilton. No doubt he was still seeing the red mist after L1.


Disagree with you on that. On that corner Max absolutely had the ability of HIM bailing out of a gap that was closing. You think that Hamilton was trying to squeeze him? Well what the hell do you think Max was doing? Max was absolutely trying to send it up the inside no matter what.

It was a racing incident in my opinion. They were both playing hard ball with eachother and paid off for neither of them.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Max is the symbol of a generation of drivers who doesn't give a fuck about spatial awareness and disguises careless driving with "rough racing"

it sucks to have to rely on him to have to defeat Mercedes
Author:  micha [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
What baffles me the most is that this kinda a rookie mistake by Lewis. He had the faster car and faster tyres. He most likely would have caught him with drs one or two laps later. You know how max is so why risk it all? Knowing all that?
Author:  Gaara [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
So if Hamilton hadn't bailed on lap one and they'd tangled, then that would have been Verstappens fault?

Course not, you'd still blame Hamilton.
Author:  racefan [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
LucasWheldon wrote:
Max is the symbol of a generation of drivers who doesn't give a fuck about spatial awareness and disguises careless driving with "rough racing"

it sucks to have to rely on him to have to defeat Mercedes

But that's down to inconsistent stewarding imo. I absolutely hate the idea where someone's entitled to a corner and therefore can push the car next to him off track, even when he's only 1cm alongside. But in F1 you get away with it most of the time. Since Austria they have suddenly picked up handing out penalties but even then 5 sec can often be worth it, as the field often is very spread out. Basically it's risk vs. reward and this new generation has come accustomed to the risk being worth the reward.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
don't forget that stewards have no consistency at all, some days they want to steal the show, in the others they let the drivers almost kill themselves on the track
Author:  Karan [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
webbsy wrote:
Karan wrote:
When watching it live, it looked like a racing incident to me, but after watching the multiple replays, that's definitely on Hamilton. He swerved to the left even coming out of the pits and Verstappen had to go evasive with half his car off track. And then Hamilton went extremely deep into the corner and clearly left him little to no space. All he had to do was tuck it into the apex and he would've still been ahead coming out of the corner. Verstappen stoutly stood his ground and ultimately he was entitled to that space. Unfortunately, the sausage kerb worsened the final result, but nonetheless that's on Hamilton. No doubt he was still seeing the red mist after L1.


Disagree with you on that. On that corner Max absolutely had the ability of HIM bailing out of a gap that was closing. You think that Hamilton was trying to squeeze him? Well what the hell do you think Max was doing? Max was absolutely trying to send it up the inside no matter what.

It was a racing incident in my opinion. They were both playing hard ball with eachother and paid off for neither of them.


Yes of course he had the ability to bail out, but the only option left to him at that point was going down the escape road as Hamilton left him no on-track space due to his wide line into the corner. Nonetheless, that doesn't negate the fact that Hamilton still put an aggressive squeeze on him. But as I said in my updated post, that's probably what Max should've done given the championship battle and still having the option to come back at Hamilton later in the race.

I've no idea what you mean about Max trying to send it up the inside. Think you meant to say he was trying to hang it around the outside. Although like I said, he was so far on the outside thanks to Hamilton's swerve coming out of the pits, that his left wheels were almost into the grass at corner entry.
Author:  Schumifan [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
This incident is just another product of the whole "I have the inside so it's my corner" bullshit. In an ideal world, Hamilton should have left space, Verstappen should have left space on lap 1, Stroll should have left space against Perez yesterday, every F2 driver that pulled the same shitty move all weekend should have left space, Verstappen should have left space at Imola... etc etc etc. But the stewards have decided this ok, and when you get a driver who refuses to bail out this is the natural result :flag:
Author:  RtN [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
They could put grass or gravel back on the inside of these chicanes...
Author:  Karan [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
Gaara wrote:
So if Hamilton hadn't bailed on lap one and they'd tangled, then that would have been Verstappens fault?

Course not, you'd still blame Hamilton.


My personal view of the L1 incident is basically the opposite of the DNF incident. Hamilton was pretty far along on the outside and fully entitled to the space. Max should've tucked closer to the apex, just like Hamilton should've during the DNF incident and not risked the car at that stage and unnecessarily putting the squeeze on Hamilton. In that case Hamilton had the presence of mind to back out and not risk spinning around or damage and lived to survive another day, just like Verstappen probably should've when he saw Hamilton putting the squeeze on him coming out of the pits.

We're definitely going to see more of these uncompromising incidents from these two going forward, as it's clearly building up this season and from a fan perspective definitely makes for a tense battle which has been a long time coming in this sport.
Author:  alex1369 [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio d'Italia 2021
I would sa a 50/50 crash, if Lewis left a bit more room, maybe Max wouldnt bounce over the kerb and onto him, but Lewis should have known how this would end, specially if Max is behind you. Halo saved for sure Hamilton there. In the end nobody won or loose.

There should be no penalty for both, look at Perez he cut and got penalty, Max didnt so he should not get penalty. As i sad 50/50

Onto the next race...
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