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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:16 am 
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The problem is the tyres aren't suited at all for these conditions, and as a result the DRIVERS aren't conditioned to race in these conditions. F1 has basically moved to intermediate conditions only, not wet weather conditions.

I watch the various Japanese racing series, and they race in some of the most heinous wet conditions....but they have tyres that are actually built to handle the conditions and they have the experience of driving in said conditions.

Formula One does not.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:37 am 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
is kinda of a dumb thing also because despite having less people in Australia than America, I'm sure there are more australians willing to watch F1 live on tv


there's probably a larger % of australians who watch f1 live, but i'd be willing to guess the actual number of individuals is higher


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:42 am 
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didn't think F1 could out do NASCAR like this but here we are

-

on the time debate: just another American coming to post that I would be completely fine with a 5AM eastern start time (over) 9AM

+1 to what @
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webbsy
said on tires. Personally believe the cars becoming too damn big has hurt the chances of racing in the rain as well

LucasWheldon wrote:
Liberty doesn't like making americans waking up at 5am in the morning to watch races

ah yes - the same type of claim that FOX & NBC use about 12:30PM start times for NASCAR & IndyCar because "MUH WEST COAST VIEWERS" - which usually means 3PM (or later) local start times and delayed/postponed races because of weather.

regardless, doesn't matter what series or where it's based (Europe, Americas, Asia/Australia, wherever) - there's too damn many races starting at 3PM or 4PM local IMHO


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:52 am 
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one weird thing is that this trend doesn't happen in local racing series. Here national series host their races at 11am to 3pm at most

but most of that is because racing audiences have got used to watch F1 in sunday mornings so they think is better this way

perhaps that's wet weather racing is very unusual either, mainly because they race on the winter that is dry and sunny and during spring and late summer when rain falls like Malaysian weather is always at late afternoon

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:53 am 
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webbsy wrote:
The problem is the tyres aren't suited at all for these conditions, and as a result the DRIVERS aren't conditioned to race in these conditions. F1 has basically moved to intermediate conditions only, not wet weather conditions.

I watch the various Japanese racing series, and they race in some of the most heinous wet conditions....but they have tyres that are actually built to handle the conditions and they have the experience of driving in said conditions.

Formula One does not.


From what I recall in today's broadcast, much of the complaints against restarting the race were over a severe lack of visibility. What difference would grippier wet weather tires made in that instance? Not that I'm disagreeing about the performance of Pirelli's extreme tires. But as I mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of that comes down to lack of testing.

All things aside, I'm personally not too perturbed that we couldn't get a race in due to the weather. Maybe I'm just too used to cricket matches getting washed out all the time by rain. And I personally feel like Race Control did just about everything they could do while trying to operate within F1's overly complicated rules and the biggest takeaway for me is that we go out of this weekend without any serious injuries, or worse.


Last edited by Karan on Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:54 am 
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ad companies wont pay $$$$ for early morning time slots


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:18 am 
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trout wrote:
LucasWheldon wrote:
is kinda of a dumb thing also because despite having less people in Australia than America, I'm sure there are more australians willing to watch F1 live on tv


there's probably a larger % of australians who watch f1 live, but i'd be willing to guess the actual number of individuals is higher

just on the TV side of things:
avg # of ESPN (USA) subscribers - 80.1 million (late 2020 - cable & sat only, races are not on ESPN+ anyway so doesn't matter there)
avg # of FOX (AUS) subscribers - 2 million (note: includes Kayo data / September 2020)

so for the % of viewing among their total subscribers - as the countries largely differ in population

Austria II:
USA (ESPN) - 1.22% (980,000 of 80.1mil)
AUS (FOX 506) - 5.35% (107,000 of 2mil)

also to note:
reminder that the USA has a higher % of cable/pay TV subscribers among the population than Australia
reminder that FOX basically has a strangehold on the Australian pay TV market so only option to watch is through FOXTEL or Kayo
reminder that ESPN is stupid easy to get in the USA as it's always on basic package for most people, however that comes with the pricing of being the most expensive channel within a cable bill (a-la-carte doesn't exist for most providers)


Last edited by racer612008 on Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:21 am 
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Scotty wrote:
trout wrote:
LucasWheldon wrote:
is kinda of a dumb thing also because despite having less people in Australia than America, I'm sure there are more australians willing to watch F1 live on tv


there's probably a larger % of australians who watch f1 live, but i'd be willing to guess the actual number of individuals is higher


Average audience share (from a quick google, some sources might be out of date)

Australia 0.38% (that's a 2020 value, where most races have been at 11pm or later AEDT)
United States 0.27% (that's a 2019 value)

Totals

Australia 100,000 average
USA 900,000 average

Percentages don't matter, nearly 9x more American's watch F1 than Australian's. So you can see why they focus on North America.



thats exactly what i meant to say, thanks. over 300 million americans vs 25 million australians


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:22 am 
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i currently watch from san francisco CA, so it's almost always an early morning for me


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:16 am 
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EAS wrote:
What really sucks about today is that F1 won't admit that nowadays it isn't that far away from racing at an oval track in regards of how to cope with rain. Then we have that pathetic acting we had today.


They raced in wet conditions - with a standing start, no less - in April.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:19 am 
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Karan wrote:
webbsy wrote:
The problem is the tyres aren't suited at all for these conditions, and as a result the DRIVERS aren't conditioned to race in these conditions. F1 has basically moved to intermediate conditions only, not wet weather conditions.

I watch the various Japanese racing series, and they race in some of the most heinous wet conditions....but they have tyres that are actually built to handle the conditions and they have the experience of driving in said conditions.

Formula One does not.


From what I recall in today's broadcast, much of the complaints against restarting the race were over a severe lack of visibility. What difference would grippier wet weather tires made in that instance? Not that I'm disagreeing about the performance of Pirelli's extreme tires. But as I mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of that comes down to lack of testing.

All things aside, I'm personally not too perturbed that we couldn't get a race in due to the weather. Maybe I'm just too used to cricket matches getting washed out all the time by rain. And I personally feel like Race Control did just about everything they could do while trying to operate within F1's overly complicated rules and the biggest takeaway for me is that we go out of this weekend without any serious injuries, or worse.


This, tbh. The only stupid decision yesterday was to award points for 2 laps behind the safety car instead of having the balls to call it off.

I don't think much can be done about the visibility other than the sort of low-spray asphalt already in use in a lot of places. The other series managed to deal with it but that's a low-downforce slower car and cars with windscreen wipers. Modern F1 cars are just too good at sucking water up off the track.

I think more laps behind the safety car would have dried some of the track up for this reason, but it wouldn't have helped them to see. Racing drivers have complained about spray hanging in the trees since the beginning of time.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:37 am 
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Ok, so I was reading this article: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-n ... y/6656946/

Massi says there was no ability to race on monday

Quote:
Other championships such as IndyCar and NASCAR have the ability to postpone a race until Monday in the event of rain washing out the event.

But FIA race director Masi said that it was not an option F1 could consider at Spa for a "whole range" of reasons.

"There is no ability to postpone the race until tomorrow," Masi said.


are we dealing with terrible journalism here or did Masi simply not give the journalist the reasons why Monday was completely out of the question?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:02 am 
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Scotty wrote:
Outlaw2431 wrote:
I gotta wonder why F1 didn't postpone the race to Monday instead of calling it off.


Marshalls, volunteers, track staff have jobs to go to.

Besides from what I read from fabs, weather forecast was the same for Monday.

It's actually still raining in Spa :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:28 am 
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Omega wrote:
Imagine missing this race because you have things to do, and you check tbk and notice the thread has 33 pages...


:wave:

I turned my phone off, avoided TVs and was very excited to get home and watch a classic wet race at one of the best circuits in the world. Disappointed is an understatement.

I can understand why they didn't race, but the handling of it was awful. Having known the forecast since arriving at the track, would it have been that difficult to arrange a back up plan of racing on the Monday, or earlier on the Sunday if the conditions were a little better? Yes, it might not be so good for the TV audience in some parts of the world, but I'd rather watch highlights of an actual race rather than sitting through yesterday's event live.

Oh, and more testing of the wet tyre required. Maybe even a monsoon tyre again.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:23 am 
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micha wrote:
are we dealing with terrible journalism here or did Masi simply not give the journalist the reasons why Monday was completely out of the question?


I saw the interview on Sky, the quote is right, Masi didn't give any reasons.

Philthy82 wrote:
I tuned in for the start, saw that the rain wasn't expected to ease for 2 days, considered what I knew about F1 and turned it off.


Fair enough for predicting it correctly, but this is fairly unprecedented, is it not? Shortest F1 race in history and not even an attempt at bringing the SC in. From what I know about F1, I've got to admit I thought some sort of race would happen at some point, be it a shortened one or whatever. Usually they sit around for 2 hours, realise the rain isn't getting any better then send them out anyway. See - Fuji 2007, Brazil 2016, I'm sure there's more.

Not that I think this is what should have happened. Just what I thought would have happened.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:41 am 
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Schumifan wrote:
micha wrote:
are we dealing with terrible journalism here or did Masi simply not give the journalist the reasons why Monday was completely out of the question?


I saw the interview on Sky, the quote is right, Masi didn't give any reasons.



Thats just inexcusable for me then.
Explanation goes a long way. Even if people dont agree with the explanation.

Now its just "We can race on monday and you just have to accept that".


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:57 am 
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Just checked latest GFS forecast for next Sunday. F1 is in big trouble :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:18 am 
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I'm reading everywhere that a lot of drivers and team bosses find it a farce that points were awarded too. They propose rule changes so this never happens again.
Most people can live with the fact that we didn't have a race yesterday, but not that it did count as a race with a result, points and trophies.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:31 am 
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Minimum distance for points needs to be increased to 20% race distance at least

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:46 am 
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mclaren2008 wrote:
Minimum distance for points needs to be increased to 20% race distance at least

then we would have had 9 laps behind the SC so it wouldn't have changed. No green flag = no points.


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