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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:23 am 
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I wonder if the feelings would have been any different if the rules clearly stated that if weather doesnt allow to race, the qualifying results will be used as race result.

You could still argue that qualifying isnt racing but knowing this, teams might have gambled a bit more in qualifying.
Teams would have anticipated more then (assumption but not unlikely).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:30 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:46 am 
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Different people have different opinions on a given subject, and will voice miscontent alternatively? You don't say!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:49 am 
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Nope, the same people have hypocritical opinions on the same subject.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:06 pm 
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Fair enough.

Drivers on the other hand were quite unanimous: racing was not possible yesterday, awarding points was weird or undeserved (or cool if you were one of those that got a "christmas gift" like Fernando says).



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:12 pm 
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Real wet weather running And testing does not exist. Track limits Are exposed And young drivers And new generations are using it so much that they forgot about the dancger And controlled driving.

Conditions were horrible but to not have a back-up plan as f1, the pinnacle of motosport,is a debacle.
I Had the luck that i didn’t expect the race to go on And i did other things. If i would be waiting in front of the TV for 3 Hrs And see 2 sc laps i would be Mad, i couldnt imagine the feeling of the fans on track.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:17 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:38 pm 
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micha wrote:
I wonder if the feelings would have been any different if the rules clearly stated that if weather doesnt allow to race, the qualifying results will be used as race result.

You could still argue that qualifying isnt racing but knowing this, teams might have gambled a bit more in qualifying.
Teams would have anticipated more then (assumption but not unlikely).

Giving points for qualifying results is still unfair, because drivers can have all sorts of penalties. While in race they can improve their position, there's nothing they can do if they're under a 10 place grid penalty, for example.

It would be even more blatant to give points for qualifying if F1 still used one-lap qualifying. In changeable conditions qualifying would sometimes turn into complete lottery. Who could forget French GP Friday Qualifying in 2003?
Code:
1    Jos Verstappen    Minardi    1:20,817    -
2    Ralph Firman    Jordan    1:23,496    + 2,679
3    Nick Heidfeld    Sauber    1:24,042    + 3,225
4    Olivier Panis    Toyota    1:24,175    + 3,358
5    Antonio Pizzonia    Jaguar    1:24,642    + 3,825
6    Jacques Villeneuve    BAR    1:24,651    + 3,834
7    Mark Webber    Jaguar    1:25,178    + 4,361
8    Heinz-Harald Frentzen    Sauber    1:26,151    + 5,334
9    Christiano da Matta    Toyota    1:26,975    + 6,158
10    Rubens Barrichello    Ferrari    1:27,095    + 6,278
11    Michael Schumacher    Ferrari    1:27,929    + 7,112
12    Giancarlo Fisichella    Jordan    1:28,502    + 7,685
13    David Coulthard    McLaren    1:28,937    + 8,120
14    Juan Pablo Montoya    Williams    1:28,988    + 8,171
15    Jarno Trulli    Renault    1:29,024    + 8,207
16    Kimi Räikkönen    McLaren    1:29,120    + 8,303
17    Ralf Schumacher    Williams    1:29,327    + 8,510
18    Fernando Alonso    Renault    1:29,455    + 8,638
19    Jenson Button    BAR    1:30,731    + 9,914
20    Justin Wilson    Minardi    1:20,968    + 0,151


It think half-points outcry gets muffled because the results were almost believable (except for Russell). If Mazepin had won his first win this way, I don't know what would be left of F1 community :p


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:06 pm 
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I think people are allowed to be dissapointed that they didn't get a race while still understanding why that wasn't possible

Especially after the anticipation of a wet grand prix at spa gain after all these years, and then losing it

It's a disgrace people got points just for showing up, as it worked out, but yeah, people are gonna vent after a race like that, I don't get why other people are more mad at people's reactions than the actual non-event itself? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:09 pm 
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The only upside I can see from this farce is that at least the focus of the conversation has shifted away from 'should we end with Eau Rouge?'


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Let them have the trophies for the top three since they'd done enough in quali and it's better than having them sat in a storage unit until next year when they'll probably just make new ones any way, but don't give out points. That's simple and as fair as can be.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:08 pm 
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Scotty wrote:
As someone who's got on the beers with Michael Masi, he's a legend. Couple of years ago he was doing what he does now for Victorian F4 races, he's had to learn a lot very quickly. He hasn't always got it right, but Charlie didn't either. He's getting eviscerated for what happened with Perez yesterday but Red Bull exploited a loophole while he was busy trying to get a race going, probably being under pressure from millions of people to start the race.

There's also the overarching fact that the drivers agree it was the right call to make not to run yesterday. Drivers safety is first, our entertainment is second.


Yeah I don't agree with all the criticism Masi's getting. He's become an easy scapegoat because his is the only name people know. He even said in that radio message about Perez, broadcast worldwide, "I'll refer that to my steward friends" yet people still seem to think he was responsible for the decision :slaphead:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:16 pm 
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I wonder what would had happened if Bernie was still in charge

of course he would push to race in the sunday no matter what because he wouldn't earn anything by having a monday race

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:46 pm 
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Schumifan wrote:
Scotty wrote:
As someone who's got on the beers with Michael Masi, he's a legend. Couple of years ago he was doing what he does now for Victorian F4 races, he's had to learn a lot very quickly. He hasn't always got it right, but Charlie didn't either. He's getting eviscerated for what happened with Perez yesterday but Red Bull exploited a loophole while he was busy trying to get a race going, probably being under pressure from millions of people to start the race.

There's also the overarching fact that the drivers agree it was the right call to make not to run yesterday. Drivers safety is first, our entertainment is second.


Yeah I don't agree with all the criticism Masi's getting. He's become an easy scapegoat because his is the only name people know. He even said in that radio message about Perez, broadcast worldwide, "I'll refer that to my steward friends" yet people still seem to think he was responsible for the decision :slaphead:

It's not the first questionable decision he made this year, but yesterday it was as if he didn't actually know the rules himself.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:05 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
I wonder what would had happened if Bernie was still in charge

of course he would push to race in the sunday no matter what because he wouldn't earn anything by having a monday race


Fuji 76 is your answer I guess

Under Bernie we'd have least have waited until sunset to get a race, or come back in the week between Zaandvort and Monza to try again, like the race in the 80s when the tarmac wasn't laid properly and they had to cancel the race, but come back months later to complete it

Wouldn't be a bad shout tbh, Liberty is desperate to make 23 races this year, lets come back in October or whenever there's a gap in the calender and finish this off. No practice/qualifying, just show up on a Sunday and race ]

(OK, you can have a 30 min warm up session in the morning to test the cars, but that's it ;) )

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:44 pm 
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That's what I was thinking about...they never thought of rescheduling the race and with the experience since last year, you can easily deal with the logistics. It's not a race in Malaysia slotted between races in Europe, or anything.

In the whatsapp group, I came out with the perfect solution. Mandatory spec body work for extreme weather conditions, to avoid the massive spray to the cars behind. Placed at the back of the wheels, like a standard mudguard. It'd make shit to remove water from the racing line, but they would be able to provide way better visibility.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:04 pm 
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i think i read masi say something about a monday race requiring agreement from the fia, fom, and the drivers. since they never agree on anything he probably deemed it impossible


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:08 pm 
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I don't understand why they didn't run behind the safety car for a long time. They've done this before, I remember Fuji 2007 had a lot of laps behind the safety car at the start. Get the drivers used to conditions and maybe create a dry line. And the spectators at least see something, even if they never really go racing. Much better than what they did yesterday


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:13 am 
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There are number of people who complain about certain drivers.
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Lance Stroll got a 10 second penalty for a rear wing change under RF and is demoted to 20th place. Like FIA literally has the nerve to waste time on penalising a car that finished 18th in a one lap race :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:27 am 
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Rules are rules, I guess.

I realized of another solution:

Given the fact that the forecast was pretty much stating that it'd be extremely wet, there should be a Plan B in terms of scheduling, and every TV broadcaster and race atendees should be aware beforehand.

Something like (just an example):

"If the forecast shows that there will be extreme weather on sunday, in the will to be able to safely race at least the 75% of the Grand Prix distance, the schedule can be arbitrarily changed to:

- FP1 becomes a 2 hour practice session, there will be no FP2 or FP3.
- Qualifying is rescheduled to FP3's saturday morning slot.
- Race to be scheduled for saturday afternoon, leaving sunday available in the case of an inevitable postponement"

You're welcome, I've fixed F1 @ Spa.


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