says the dude who pulled this move
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| Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11118 |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
I don't really have a problem with the incident. After what happened to Norris and Perez in Austria it was always going to be a penalty. I'm totally fine with Hamilton's penalty, even though it for me was borderline racing incident 45-55. But lets not gloss over Max's very robust defense...repeatedly (which the FIA is allowing to happen, see Alonso yesterday and Ricciardo to a lesser extent today) But what really pisses me off is the way Hamilton carried on like an idiot afterwards. Even if Max was fine and still at the track, the way he carried on was cringe worthy and I rightly agree with Max, quite disrespectful. I get it, Lewis has had pressure building up on him. They won't admit it, but he and Mercedes expected this year to be an absolute walk over, and have now found themselves behind Red Bull, so I can understand the release of energy. But acting and carrying on like it was a miracle come from last place to first win, when in reality he was about to have his arse handed to him and only won cause of a clunky move? It was like he was trolling his haters. |
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| Author: | amq55 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
Schumifan wrote: Quite a bit of debris went into the crowd A woman was taken in an ambulance because of a cut on her arm probably from a bit of carbon fibre. |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
says the dude who pulled this move |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
amq55 wrote: Schumifan wrote: Quite a bit of debris went into the crowd A woman was taken in an ambulance because of a cut on her arm probably from a bit of carbon fibre. I'd like to formally thank the camera person for filming in the correct orientation, not filming with a phone, and actually following the action properly.  Damn he hit the wall a ton. |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
that wheel came off easily too, did the tether fail |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
mclaren2008 wrote: <twitter quote> says the dude who pulled this move Ugh, stop with the fucking whataboutism. Try and debate an incident on its own without bringing in completely unrelated history. Yes, we see you can find things on the internet, very clever. |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
Completely removing names and championship stakes from the picture, my question is how much is Copse considered an overtaking corner? It's extremely fast, very little braking and pretty much one line, probably one of the riskiest places to attempt an overtake. Most of the time overtakes there are decided by one car being ahead before braking and the other car conceding to avoid an accident. I like that drivers are willing to take risks, but when they choose to attempt a pass in a risky spot and they don't get it right, they should expect a pretty hefty penalty. IMO that penalty should be a bit more harsh when it's a one-line corner and the car behind can't hold their line, as happened here. It should certainly be as harsh or harsher than entering a closed pit (last year's 10 second stop-and-go at Monza). It comes back to the fact the FIA have no fucking idea how to categorise unsafe driving. This is the kind of thing that should accrue enough penalty points to scare a driver. |
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| Author: | Karan [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
webbsy wrote: amq55 wrote: Schumifan wrote: Quite a bit of debris went into the crowd A woman was taken in an ambulance because of a cut on her arm probably from a bit of carbon fibre. I'd like to formally thank the camera person for filming in the correct orientation, not filming with a phone, and actually following the action properly. Damn he hit the wall a ton. Agreed, that video really captures the sense of speed and energy of the impact far better than any of the FOM footage. |
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| Author: | Coldtyre [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
Philthy82 wrote: Completely removing names and championship stakes from the picture, my question is how much is Copse considered an overtaking corner? Not to take anything from the points you made later, but hasn't this question been answered twice during the race yesterday? I don't like the idea of classifying zones on each track. The regulations are already complicated as they are. The natural penalty for getting it wrong are so high that it sorts itself out. Yesterday was an outlier in just how incredibly lucky Hamilton was: didn't spin out, didn't have terminal damage, then had the benefit of a red flag (only because they needed time to uncharge Max's battery) to not lose time. It's a one in a decade amount of luck. It's impossible to control the outcome. Usually you're either in the wall too, or at the back of the field. The consequences are a deterrent in itself, not the penalty which only came precisely because he rode it out unscathed (time penalty that is - license points always go no matter what). Let's not remove all spice from the sport by discouraging high speed passes. They got us awesome moments when done right (Eau Rouge Webber Alonso Bottas, Portugal Schumi-Villeneuve, Monza Curva Grande Vettel vs Alonso etc...), and that entails accepting that once in a while they'll end up in tears. |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
I agree with you, I don't want them classifying certain corners as 'thou shall not pass' zones or anything. I just think penalties should be harsher for failed passes that objectively had a low chance of not causing a wreck, and 10 seconds given at the start of an F1 race really isn't much of a penalty. Put it another way, do you really want to see drivers sticking their noses in on corners where they know they won't make the apex, or the defending driver has no opportunity to change lines to accommodate them or no real alternate line to take? 10 seconds to race time isn't much a deterrent for that if you're at the front of the field. I don't think you can rely on risk of damage alone to discourage those moves, the car behind usually ends up better off than the car in front in a wheel to wheel / wheel to wing hit. |
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| Author: | Coldtyre [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
They could remove time penalties and go back to pit-based penalties: drive-throughs and dedicated stop&gos. In GT if you go over track limits 4 times you get a drive-through. People will complain because it will be too harsh 90% of the time, but it gives a real place penalty and not just time that can be made up. I'm still against handing penalties for non-deliberate racing accidents, but I gave up that fight a while ago 
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| Author: | Coldtyre [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
Or wait, we let the AWS AI predictor come up with penalties based on footage analysis, relative laptimes, remaining laps, black box recording severity, and a random sampling of fan Twitter posts |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
Coldtyre wrote: They could remove time penalties and go back to pit-based penalties: drive-throughs and dedicated stop&gos. In GT if you go over track limits 4 times you get a drive-through. People will complain because it will be too harsh 90% of the time, but it gives a real place penalty and not just time that can be made up. I'm still against handing penalties for non-deliberate racing accidents, but I gave up that fight a while ago Eh, I think cars with fenders are the place for a more relaxed view of non-deliberate contact, but with open wheelers the consequences are big enough that you need to encourage some level of risk assessment before attempting an overtake. Pit based penalties for unsafe driving would be a huge step in the right direction, at least there the driver found guilty will actually have their race compromised as a result. |
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| Author: | micha [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
At the very least they should make any car receiving repairs during red flag start at the back. Lewis had a cracked wheel which they replaced during the red flag (mentioned on sky). With just a SC he would have been at the back. Also, he claimed he didn’t know max was in the hospital. BS. He could have known max was shaken up and taken to the infield hospital at the very least because all that was known well before the restart. Lewis just shown us the real Lewis yesterday Daniel on the other hand first asked the Dutch reporter about max before answering questions about his own race. |
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| Author: | Juihi [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
That was such a Lewis Hamilton race, takes out rival, red flag allows him to fix damage, penalty dealt vs consequences don't match up, next rival on track has issues, wins. When is he going to be on the receiving end of bad luck? |
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| Author: | Juihi [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
amq55 wrote: Schumifan wrote: Quite a bit of debris went into the crowd A woman was taken in an ambulance because of a cut on her arm probably from a bit of carbon fibre. OMG, that's a bloody violent crash |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
is that faster than Perez at Monaco and Kyvat at Sochi |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
When was the last time a driver got a drive thru penalty? They used to be pretty common back in the day. The main issue I see is, you need one set of consistent rules. Saying that corner X has a different set of rules to corner Y, or outcome X has a different outcome than Y just creates confusion. The last thing F1 needs is more confusion from the stewards. Now to completely contradict myself  .......maybe if a driver has to retire from a race due to contact that would normally have a time penalty given, then the offending driver can get a drive thru rather than a 5 or 10 second time penalty. If the other driver can continue then its just the time penalty as normal.
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
Karan wrote: Toto87 wrote: Been a while since I posted a video. After the race the FOM showed a complete long video of Verstappen / Hamilton's contact including all the angles (long version) and a aftermath of the crash (not shown live) Here it is:  Download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hTsTiU ... sp=sharing Duration: 5 min 24 sec Size: 870 MB Thanks for posting! Just looking at that replay made me think of another thing, which unfortunately only Hamilton will know if true or not. But in yesterday's sprint race, didn't he try to make a move around the outside of Verstappen going into Copse and it failed? Today you can see Verstappen quite firmly moves to close the door on the inside, leaving Hamilton a ton of room to try and go around the outside. But having known from yesterday that failed, Hamilton aggressively commits to the inside this time, even though he can see there's the narrowest of margins between Verstappen and the old pit wall. Almost like he had made up his mind that this time he was going outmuscle Verstappen no matter what...almost like it was premeditated to a degree. I think there's a lot of this behind his move today. Max has outfoxed him a couple of times this season and he isn't used to that. Add in the fact that Max also made some very questionable weaving moves in both races, and I'm sure Lewis considered it a case of putting manners on him, which ultimately backfired. |
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| Author: | James B [ Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021 |
webbsy wrote: When was the last time a driver got a drive thru penalty? They used to be pretty common back in the day. Kimi in literally the last race |
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