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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:51 pm 
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pimmy wrote:
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Overtaking is overrated IMO. Thanks to DRS I haven't cared about overtaking for years. It's the battles that are interesting, whether or not they lead to an overtake (or collision).

Thank you. This is the thing that most people fail to grasp. Overtaking in and of itself is not exciting, the battle for position is. You could have a nose to tail, side by side battle with not a single pass being made and it would be infinitely more exciting than someone getting a free pass after pressing a button. If I wanted to watch cars just pass each other with no effort, I'd just watch traffic on the motorway. DRS might as well stand for Delete Racing System, because that's exactly what it is. It gives you the end result of an overtake without the build-up to it. It doesn't give the drivers an opportunity to demonstrate their skill or racecraft. Unlike the push to pass system in Indycar or the overtaking boost system in Super Formula, where drivers can both attack and defend, DRS leaves the leading car as a sitting duck and it's totally unfair.


That's the thing though, in this era there's PLENTY of overtakes, and definitely more than the mid-00s, OUTSIDE DRS zones that don't get their due credit due to "lol DRS sucks, bad racing"

Perez, for example put on a number of brave overtakes in Bahrain, around the outside of Albon at T4 as just one example of many, and there were a good few in the twisty section too (George passing Bottas there and a few others)

Wheras back then, there were about 3 passes per race if you were lucky, between the midfield/backmarkers and the rest were solely in the pit lane over/undercuts

No, I'm as fussy about overtakes than the next guy but there's enough non-DRS passes now to sate my need, whereas back then I was left investigating CART/A1GP or whatever other alternate single seater series was providing the wheel to wheel action instead of just running to the program of refueling windows.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:31 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
pimmy wrote:
JJ wrote:
Overtaking is overrated IMO. Thanks to DRS I haven't cared about overtaking for years. It's the battles that are interesting, whether or not they lead to an overtake (or collision).

Thank you. This is the thing that most people fail to grasp. Overtaking in and of itself is not exciting, the battle for position is. You could have a nose to tail, side by side battle with not a single pass being made and it would be infinitely more exciting than someone getting a free pass after pressing a button. If I wanted to watch cars just pass each other with no effort, I'd just watch traffic on the motorway. DRS might as well stand for Delete Racing System, because that's exactly what it is. It gives you the end result of an overtake without the build-up to it. It doesn't give the drivers an opportunity to demonstrate their skill or racecraft. Unlike the push to pass system in Indycar or the overtaking boost system in Super Formula, where drivers can both attack and defend, DRS leaves the leading car as a sitting duck and it's totally unfair.


That's the thing though, in this era there's PLENTY of overtakes, and definitely more than the mid-00s, OUTSIDE DRS zones that don't get their due credit due to "lol DRS sucks, bad racing"

Perez, for example put on a number of brave overtakes in Bahrain, around the outside of Albon at T4 as just one example of many, and there were a good few in the twisty section too (George passing Bottas there and a few others)

Wheras back then, there were about 3 passes per race if you were lucky, between the midfield/backmarkers and the rest were solely in the pit lane over/undercuts

No, I'm as fussy about overtakes than the next guy but there's enough non-DRS passes now to sate my need, whereas back then I was left investigating CART/A1GP or whatever other alternate single seater series was providing the wheel to wheel action instead of just running to the program of refueling windows.

The Sakhir Outer Circuit is one of the best layouts that F1 has run in recent memory. The simpler the track, the better the racing tends to be (more tracks like that please, F1!). Although turn 4 obviously isn't in a DRS zone, passes there are heavily aided by it. And Russell's pass on Bottas, as good as it was, was helped by the two being on significantly different tyres. You rarely get natural straight fights between cars in a similar condition to one another in F1, unlike almost all other series. The main issues are too much dirty air produced by top-side aero (and too much grip in general) and overly technical circuits.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:55 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:54 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:50 am 
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codename_47 wrote:
pimmy wrote:
JJ wrote:
Overtaking is overrated IMO. Thanks to DRS I haven't cared about overtaking for years. It's the battles that are interesting, whether or not they lead to an overtake (or collision).

Thank you. This is the thing that most people fail to grasp. Overtaking in and of itself is not exciting, the battle for position is. You could have a nose to tail, side by side battle with not a single pass being made and it would be infinitely more exciting than someone getting a free pass after pressing a button. If I wanted to watch cars just pass each other with no effort, I'd just watch traffic on the motorway. DRS might as well stand for Delete Racing System, because that's exactly what it is. It gives you the end result of an overtake without the build-up to it. It doesn't give the drivers an opportunity to demonstrate their skill or racecraft. Unlike the push to pass system in Indycar or the overtaking boost system in Super Formula, where drivers can both attack and defend, DRS leaves the leading car as a sitting duck and it's totally unfair.


That's the thing though, in this era there's PLENTY of overtakes, and definitely more than the mid-00s, OUTSIDE DRS zones that don't get their due credit due to "lol DRS sucks, bad racing"

Perez, for example put on a number of brave overtakes in Bahrain, around the outside of Albon at T4 as just one example of many, and there were a good few in the twisty section too (George passing Bottas there and a few others)

Wheras back then, there were about 3 passes per race if you were lucky, between the midfield/backmarkers and the rest were solely in the pit lane over/undercuts

No, I'm as fussy about overtakes than the next guy but there's enough non-DRS passes now to sate my need, whereas back then I was left investigating CART/A1GP or whatever other alternate single seater series was providing the wheel to wheel action instead of just running to the program of refueling windows.

Thank you. I sometimes wonder if we all watched the same races.

People don't compare apples to apples:

- Past battles that were exciting back then: this means the car behind was significantly faster. Nowadays, it would breeze past with DRS. Agree DRS makes it worse, but this is the only situation people base their criticism on, and it wasn't the most common.

- Past battles where the cars are evenly matched or close: they used to remain stuck at 1 second behind and not even have the possibility to attack. DRS allows them to stay close, inch closer, and try something at least.

The most exciting battles back then weren't side-by-side. They were a few seconds apart, hotlapping against each other like it's a fucking time attack championship.

Please someone link me to the Bahrain 2014 of that era. The Monza and Austria 2019 of that era (those close battles would not happen without DRS, you'd get two leaders not able to follow closely).

Imola 2005 doesn't count, there was nothing Michael could've done and we know it deep down. Spa 2000 doesn't count, Mika HAD enough top speed that it was like a DRS, coming back on Michael from miles back at the bottom of Eau Rouge. Remove the goddamn rose-tinted glasses and watch that era for what it was in terms of racing: absolute crap.

There are things to fix still, but it can be done by moving forward, not backwards, and I'm thankful F1 seems to be doing just that with 2022


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:10 pm 
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Formation lap under way


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Green!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Alfas attacking the Ferraris. Amazing.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Bottas didn't lose any positions. Gosh.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Yeah this isn't going to be a classic


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:18 pm 
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Schumifan wrote:
Yeah this isn't going to be a classic

Yeah, I'm hoping Masi decides to deploy the SC even if someone retires into their pitbox.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:19 pm 
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That was a really clean start. Just one lock up into T1.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Cant remember such a boring start

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:25 pm 
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So that's it. Amazing race


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:25 pm 
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Can we pretend this track doesn't exist and never return here ever again?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:26 pm 
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The only thing remotely interesting is to follow the battle for the 3rd place in the constructors' championship.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:29 pm 
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Perez conked out


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:29 pm 
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VSC


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:29 pm 
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Perez out


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