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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:45 pm 
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I wonder if there's onboard footage from the Medical Car available? Would be interesting to see the perspective of the cars racing away from it at lights out, and the MC arriving on scene.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:39 am 
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NVirkkula wrote:
Also, if you look closely the replay of the crash, you can see his hand on this video around 26 - 30 second marks raising from the flames. Next time you seem him is around 45 seconds when he's outside the car. He really was conscious all that the time but was stuck there.

And while every second feels eternity, you can see how at 1:54 he's trying to get out and that marshall is doing his job perfectly, blasting the stuff where the driver is located.



Watching this back does make me realise how big a part luck had to play in the outcome. Had Romain been unconscious or not been able to squeeze out between the halo and the guardrail, or had van der Merwe not been there and had the stones to go right up to the flames and grab him, there's nothing those marshals could have done to save him from death by burns or asphyxiation. Incredible.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:39 am 
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A day later and I'm still stunned.

Don't forget this weekend had a bloody dog on track in FP2, A big crash for Albon, an old school engine burn down and foolish, raving lunatic marshal running across the course and even a flip on the restart, and none of that is being talked about, justifiably.

They might as well stop the season right now as there won't be anything comparable to talk about for the final 2 races either
It'll probably always be known as "the Covid Affected season, you know, the one where Grosjean had his big fireball crash" forever

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:57 am 
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still insane that Grosjean survived that one.
'
while I know it's due to the runoff for the shorter paddock layout, that angle of the wall was incredibly stupid on the drivers right. Drivers left not being great either but not as bad. Of course being armco makes it even worse (in terms of being a danger to safety marshals when the car split through it). In this case I don't see how he could of survived if it was concrete however as well.

I do hope that this is a wake up call for all tracks & series to really step their game up on safety again once they are able to afford it post-rona


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:39 am 
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Drivers have survived faster more direct hits into concrete than that, and not even just recently (Kubica, 2007). Hitting concrete with the front of a crash structure with room to deform before the driver's body is far better than hitting guardrail which can either directly impact the cockpit at head height with the top bar, or acts as a giant pair of scissors when the car hits it the right way. Take Grosjean's accident and replace armco with concrete and there's no direct hit to the halo, no car being torn in half, no massive fire - worst case, he breaks his ankles or legs.

I still think the danger here has little to do with angle and everything to do with the unpredictable nature of hitting guardrails at speed. They're not even really safe in saloons - see Robert's other big accident in 2011.

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Last edited by Philthy82 on Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:46 am 
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And they made the surviving cell stronger after Kubica crash. Anyway, this pic shows the brutallity of that impact. Not the sharpest angle, but the speed was very high.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:20 am 
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Hamilton has Covid! And will miss this weeks race

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:27 am 
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Juihi wrote:
Hamilton has Covid! And will miss this weeks race


Bad for him, good for the race. I wish him a full recovery. But he should take his time.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:28 am 
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Agreed, I hope he recovers 100%

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:39 am 
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Philthy82 wrote:
NVirkkula wrote:
Also, if you look closely the replay of the crash, you can see his hand on this video around 26 - 30 second marks raising from the flames. Next time you seem him is around 45 seconds when he's outside the car. He really was conscious all that the time but was stuck there.

And while every second feels eternity, you can see how at 1:54 he's trying to get out and that marshall is doing his job perfectly, blasting the stuff where the driver is located.



Watching this back does make me realise how big a part luck had to play in the outcome. Had Romain been unconscious or not been able to squeeze out between the halo and the guardrail, or had van der Merwe not been there and had the stones to go right up to the flames and grab him, there's nothing those marshals could have done to save him from death by burns or asphyxiation. Incredible.



Accoring to Lucas DiGrassi we cant call it a miracle he survived. It was all science and hard work.



To an extend he has a point but there is no science that prevents a driver from getting knocked out or the tub being stuck in just the right angle to leave room to escape.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:36 am 
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Scotty wrote:
micha wrote:
To an extend he has a point but there is no science that prevents a driver from getting knocked out or the tub being stuck in just the right angle to leave room to escape.


There's a science for that, it's called physics. Not sure where you were going with that point.


But you cant use science to manipulate physics so the car got stuck in the position it got stuck and not in a position where he couldnt get out.

There is no magic pill to prevent a driver from getting knocked out either.

Saying its a miracle he survived isnt disregarding the science behind it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:36 am 
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Juihi wrote:
Hamilton has Covid! And will miss this weeks race


The lolz if they call up Hulk. NOW he would have a car capable of finishing on the podium. Russell is probably going down on Toto at the moment.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:04 pm 
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Grosjean recalls Bahrain GP escape: "I saw death coming"


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"I don't know if the word miracle exists or if it can be used, but in any case I would say it wasn't my time [to die]," Grosjean told TF1.

"It felt much longer than 28 seconds. I see my visor turning all orange, I see the flames on the left side of the car. I thought about a lot of things, including Niki Lauda, and I thought that it wasn't possible to end up like that, not now. I couldn't finish my story in Formula 1 like that.

"And then, for my children, I told myself that I had to get out. I put my hands in the fire, so I clearly felt it burning on the chassis.

"I got out, then I felt someone pulling on the suit, so I knew I was out."

Grosjean revealed that his five-year-old son, Simon, believes he has "magical powers" and that he has a "magical love shield" that protected him.

"These are very strong words from the children," Grosjean said. "My eldest, Sacha, who is seven years old, is more rational, he tries to understand.

"And my little one has drawn a picture, 'for daddy's sores on his hands'."

Grosjean acknowledged he would likely need to discuss the trauma of such a dramatic accident as he feared he would be killed.

"I was more afraid for my family and friends, obviously my children who are my greatest source of pride and energy, than for myself in the end," Grosjean said.

"I think there's going to be some psychological work to be done, because I really saw death coming.

"Even in Hollywood, we're not able to do images like that. It's the biggest crash I've ever seen in my life. The car catching fire, exploding, and the battery that burst into flames too, so it added a lot of energy to the impact."

Grosjean gave thanks for the messages he had received, but said again that he was eager to be back in the car in time for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

"I would say that there is a feeling of being happy to be alive, of seeing things differently," Grosjean said.

"But also there is the need to get back in the car, if possible in Abu Dhabi, to finish my story with Formula One in a different way.

"It was almost like a second birth. To come out of the flames that day is something that will mark my life forever.

"I have a lot of people who have shown me love and it has touched me a lot, and at times I get a bit teary-eyed."


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:36 pm 
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Now that it is clear that Grosjean survived, has only minor injuries which will heal soon, and will have no other lasting damage, isn't it time to give Grosjean a penalty for causing a collision, and bringing himself, other drivers and track marshalls in danger? I think a one race ban is on order, to make sure he really doesn't race in F1 anymore this year.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:59 pm 
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Just give them time, the FIA won't be shy to point this out in their accident report.

Remember how critical their wording was about Bianchi, even as he paid the ultimate price for his mistake.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:35 pm 
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Would pee myself laughing if Hamilton's replacement thrashes Bottas.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:42 pm 
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micha wrote:
Scotty wrote:
micha wrote:
To an extend he has a point but there is no science that prevents a driver from getting knocked out or the tub being stuck in just the right angle to leave room to escape.


There's a science for that, it's called physics. Not sure where you were going with that point.


But you cant use science to manipulate physics so the car got stuck in the position it got stuck and not in a position where he couldnt get out.
There is no magic pill to prevent a driver from getting knocked out either.
Saying its a miracle he survived isnt disregarding the science behind it.


That's the way I see it too. Perhaps the world 'miracle' makes this too much about philosophy for some people. But make no mistake, there was a lot of intangible factors and pure luck that resulted in the final outcome. I don't know, to make his survival purely down to science/technology like di Grassi is implying, to me that feels a bit too complacent. As if to say, okay the science/technology did their job and we're fine. But while they did what they're supposed to (to a degree), you alter a few small factors and now all that science/technology comes up woefully short and we're talking about a much more gruesome outcome. And I don't think they want to be cutting it so close and relying that much on luck/miracles. So while the sport will never be safe, there's still a lot of ongoing work needed on that science/technology to make it safer.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:59 pm 
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English is not my first language, but I use "miracle" as a synonym for lucky. "It's a miracle Hamilton was able to limp home and win British GP". Also the word can be used sarcastically or exaggerated way: "What a miracle Bottas didn't lose a position at the start."

Of course, since supernatural things do not exist by definition, "miracles" as acts of god don't exist either. But I think it's ok to call Grosjean's escape "miraculous", implying "very fortunate".


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:25 pm 
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That's been my interpretation of the word as it is broadly used. I don't get the impression most people use it in the literal, divine intervention sense when they say it.


Last edited by Chris A on Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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