Formula 1 Emirates Gran Premio dell'Emilia-Romagna 2020

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Coldtyre wrote:

Scotty wrote:

One things for sure we found out this week, Albon and Stroll are not F1 material.

That seems harsh for Albon, given how he drove last year after being promoted to RedBull. Perhaps you mean in terms of handling pressure, but even then the job of a team is to make a rookie feel at home and help them develop their potential, rather than crushing them under pressure and discarding them like they did with Gasly last year.

Gasly is incensed this year, but you'd hear exactly the same comments about him back at RB. I just don't trust Red Bull enough to form an opinion on their non-Max drivers potential.

I think Red Bull have proven many times that they are either incapable or completely unwilling to help their drivers develop in any way once they reach the top team. The only driver to fully 'exit' their programme is Vettel, and he has demonstrated that he can't really operate without a perfect car under him. Max seems to be halfway there, unfortunately, as evidenced by the hot-headedness when things go wrong. Everyone else just got fed into the grinder and discarded.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:49 pm

RtN wrote:

Another note in the file marked 'Michael Masi is fucking retarded' - cars were allowed to unlap themselves whilst marshals were on the racing surface.

A clear mix-up from race control, but fuuuuuck Stroll barely even slowed down there!

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:51 pm

Not sure if it's any excuse, but Stroll was not given any sort of radio warning about the marshals, whereas Raikkonen, Vettel and Grosjean were. And if you read the RaceFans article, Vettel was unhappy with the situation even with the warning.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:14 pm

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 0rxCG.html

Verstappens blowout from the rear cam

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:53 pm

RtN wrote:

Not sure if it's any excuse, but Stroll was not given any sort of radio warning about the marshals, whereas Raikkonen, Vettel and Grosjean were. And if you read the RaceFans article, Vettel was unhappy with the situation even with the warning.

Not only did he not get a warning, he had been told to push after being released from the train. It's the age-old problem of drivers not respecting double-waved yellows and the FIA not punishing violations, even after Bianchi.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:55 pm

Gaara wrote:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.must-see-unseen-footage-shows-how-verstappen-suffered-instantaneous-puncture.UHaJylsewKIdzXPz0rxCG.html

Verstappens blowout from the rear cam

damn it was right away, came out of the blue

could it be a manufacturing issue?

Karan · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:58 pm

gkmotorsport wrote:

RtN wrote:

Another note in the file marked 'Michael Masi is fucking retarded' - cars were allowed to unlap themselves whilst marshals were on the racing surface.

A clear mix-up from race control, but fuuuuuck Stroll barely even slowed down there!

Ouff that made me a little uneasy to watch. Imagine if 2 cars were unlapping themselves, very close to each other, and the one in front suddenly braked upon seeing the marshalls on track while the one behind (e.g. Stroll) was going flat out...

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:02 pm

If you look at Kimi's onboard video, he's going full tilt around the track until he reaches the area where the marshals are. So it seems to be standard practice that drivers who are unlapping themselves are allowed to drive at racing speed around the track until they reach the snake again.

Also on Kimi's video, you can see that whilst the LED boards do switch to show waved yellows for the run towards Acqua Minerali, the first one can be seen only in the middle of the left-handed sweep going into the downhill. So even if the driver is paying attention to the boards, in this case they won't see it until it is possibly too late.

James B · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:09 pm

Schumifan wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Albon has got the 2nd best car on the grid (in Verstappen's hands anyway) and sits behind a Renault, a joke of a Ferrari, 2 McLarens and someone driving a tRacing Point who missed 2 races in the standings. Gasly is knocking on the door of his points haul (although I will say Gasly did get kind of lucky) but then Stroll isn't far back off him, he got lucky one race in getting a podium but he too missed a race. Albon's podium also came in kind of fortuitous circumstances (Bottas DNF'ing, good strategy and passing drivers off track).

Albon is trash. Gasly AND Kyvat are better drivers than him in my opinion. I'll be very happy to see Perez or Hulk in his seat in 2021.

You could say he's been thrown into the deep end, but cream rises to the top. Verstappen was thrown into the deep end too once.

Albon's clearly underperforming, but I think calling him trash is unfair. No driver who's got to his level is trash. There's clearly something going on with that 2nd RBR seat which is making good drivers look bad, be it too much pressure from Marko & Horner/car set up for Verstappen/whatever. Gasly is the proof. And Verstappen's a once in a generation driver - expecting everyone to be as good as him (and before him, Vettel) has arguably led to the current state of the RBR junior driver program.

I'm going to sit in the middle here. I don't think Albon is a terrible driver, but equally he's a guy who finished 3rd in his second season of F2. There are plenty drivers who have finished 3rd or better in their nth season of GP2/F2 but never got a chance in F1 - Valsecchi, Leimer, De Vries, Calado, Razia. I'm sure they were all competent drivers and would have put in acceptable performances in F1. I'm not sure we lost out by not having them in F1, though - maybe one or two who slipped under the radar like Sam Bird, but beyond that, they're good drivers in an era where being good isn't enough to justify having one of the top seats on the grid

The idea of promoting Albon when they did never sat well with me. I was pleased for him on a personal level but I couldn't see what he'd done that showed he deserved a promotion. Gasly was mentally fried in that seat, but Albon had been level-pegging with Kvyat, who is a known quantity and has since been blown away by Gasly. I think he had some good race drives last year but he has never had the one-lap pace. Red Bull would have been better promoting Kvyat into that seat as someone who knows the team and would be a decent benchmark, and using that time to compare Gasly and Albon in the second half of the year. I suspect Gasly would have beaten Albon, and that would be that

The point is made in this week's The Race F1 Podcast that Albon wasn't really talked about as an F1 level driver prior to Red Bull digging him out of his Nissan Formula E contract. He and Kvyat (and Hartley before them) were there because Red Bull didn't have anyone else rather than because they genuinely wanted them, and I think that's hindered both of them. I'm concerned that Gasly is now falling into that same trap, because Tsunoda appears to be the driver they're excited about and they seem to have decided already that they're not going to give Gasly another go in the senior team. He needs to get out ASAP

Gabriel · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:12 pm

I was just watching that onboard restart by Kvyat.

Man, that thing really hit a wall of bricks after pulling out of Albon's slipstream.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:46 pm

2 un-noticed things, it seems

Vettel got away without penalty for hoofing the Haas out of the race at the start? Are the stewards sleeping for the first 2 laps or something?

My favourite part though was how Leclerc proved Montoya right from 2004. It IS possible to get around the outside of Tosa if the car in front doesn't see you there and turn right on you.

Still, I seem to be the only one not in love with this track, too many chicanes.

Did anyone see the director trolling and holding a long shot as the cars dissapeared into the kink before the first chicane, then cut straight to the camera on the exit of the first chicane and making it look on TV like it wasn't there and they were still racing straight down Tamberello?
Nice try man but there's still a chicane there to ruin the flow :mrgreen:

webbsy · PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:29 am

After watching the Kimi and Stroll on boards it is clear to me that Stroll at minimum should at least be getting a reprimand. In The Race article it states that that sector time he did with those marshals was only 1 second slower than the fastest of his race.

Kimi was legging it around the lap, but slowed down at the point of the incident, that they had already passed before. Stroll just hammered it and didn't even slow down when he could see them on the track.

A monumental fuck up by race direction for sure, but it is still under yellow even when lapped cars can overtake.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:39 am

webbsy wrote:

After watching the Kimi and Stroll on boards it is clear to me that Stroll at minimum should at least be getting a reprimand. In The Race article it states that that sector time he did with those marshals was only 1 second slower than the fastest of his race.

Kimi was legging it around the lap, but slowed down at the point of the incident, that they had already passed before. Stroll just hammered it and didn't even slow down when he could see them on the track.

A monumental fuck up by race direction for sure, but it is still under yellow even when lapped cars can overtake.

This. Kimi did hoof it around until he saw the yellow boards, at which point he slowed down a lot. Stroll pushed all the way through there and was told by his team to do so. If he and the team get away with it, it shows the FIA *and* teams have learned nothing from Bianchi's accident.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:50 pm

Well, I may still have PTSD over my own similar incident last year but if that had happened on a UK oval and stroll had hit one of those marshals, he and Masi would be facing serious jail time right about now

Unforgiveable.

But no doubt the FIA will publish a report victim blaming the marshals involved and I'll spend the next 5 years arguing about that every time it comes up too. :roll:

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:21 pm

codename_47 wrote:

But no doubt the FIA will publish a report victim blaming the marshals involved and I'll spend the next 5 years arguing about that every time it comes up too. :roll:

plus questioning Italy capability to hold a race, placing the whole country in jeopardy because of "not so careful marshalls" and other dumb kneejerk reactions

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:48 am

Shouldn't this also mean that lapped drivers would better just be waived BACK to the queue, rather than envouraged to haul ass around a compromised track, to catch the train before the restart?

Stroll almost ran into Bottas as well. He'd have taken off the leader and ended up in the catchfence or a marshall post, exactly what we need under caution.

I'm sure they can find a software solution to giving them the lap back if that's necessary. Hopefully the comments by Vettel will be discussed in briefings and actions taken. I love to see crashes under green, not behind a safety car with pedestrians and trucks involved.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:58 am

Coldtyre wrote:

Shouldn't this also mean that lapped drivers would better just be waived BACK to the queue, rather than envouraged to haul ass around a compromised track, to catch the train before the restart?

Stroll almost ran into Bottas as well. He'd have taken off the leader and ended up in the catchfence or a marshall post, exactly what we need under caution.

I'm sure they can find a software solution to giving them the lap back if that's necessary. Hopefully the comments by Vettel will be discussed in briefings and actions taken. I love to see crashes under green, not behind a safety car with pedestrians and trucks involved.

Seems like common sense could solve both problems - don't allow cars to un-lap themselves until the track is actually clear, and instruct other cars to stop weaving when it happens.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:30 pm

If I used to be able to change transponders between a broken down kart and the kart in pit lane the driver got into to continue the race, including deleting any laps lost in the transfer, at my 2 bit kart track in Birmingham, then I'm sure the greatest series in the world could manage a way to give cars a lap back without sending them through a potentially dangerous accident scene at top speed

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:36 pm

The issue isn't timing and scoring, but fuel. Would it be fair for a car in 11th who had just been lapped to simply drop to the back of the queue and have a whole extra lap of fuel to use?

I suppose it's not so much of a problem now that the engine maps are locked, but I'm fairly sure that that is the stumbling block here.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:11 pm

Well, just move to electric cars, then they can delete the amount of charge in the battery or whatever formula E do to make it fair :lol:

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Formula 1 Emirates Gran Premio dell'Emilia-Romagna 2020

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