Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio della Toscana Ferrari 1000 2020

Beezle · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:11 am

If you allow passing (safety car line) from the apex of the last turn, nothing happens. No need to change the "system".

thestig88 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am

I hope F1 doesnt return to Mugello, purely because the only reason Mugello didnt get "butchered" to meet F1's standards this time was due to the "short notice" of the current calendar.

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:04 pm

That would be rather ironic because there was not a single complaint from anyone about the track.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:06 pm

plus the track is Ferrari property. Would FIArrari tell them to change anything there? I doubt it

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:19 pm

pimmy wrote:

codename_47 wrote:

Time for those rules to change, methinks. F1 is unique in the way they run safety car restarts, so give control back to the starter and not the guy in P1.

F1 isn't unique at all. Most European-style series have the same type of restart procedure in place and you don't see pile-ups in those. Yesterdays crash was caused by the people at the back trying to get a run on the cars ahead. Bottas did nothing wrong and the system doesn't need to change.

I just think the US style (restarts controlled by the flagman) is a lot safer because everyone is under the same control and the back can't get a run on the front of the field, nor can the pack split.

More red flags and standing restarts are also acceptable

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:38 pm

I vote to stay as it is because is been a long time since we don't see cars retiring. This is part of the sport and now the cars are safer than ever is quite welcome to have some wrex

cookie · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:04 pm

Loved the race, much better than Monza. I hope mugello replaces monza as the Italian gp from now on. Cars looked fast, no stupid track limits, gravel, good overtaking, better than those parades at monza every year

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:58 pm

The drivers are disagreeing on not changing the SC procedure as the SC lights didn't go out until the final corner.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:29 pm

So Masi wanted to end with that trick of bunching the field so the leader could spread out his lead and it backfired on a sporting point of view, but not in a entertainment point of view

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:06 am

I just don't get why anyone wants the leader to control the restart. It results in dickish slowdown/speed up behaviour that has caused a lot more collisions than the one last weekend, and the only one who gains from it is the leader who generally gets a huge jump. Everyone else has a choice between falling way behind or potentially causing an accident. Let the lights signal go time for everyone and the drivers with the quickest reactions can benefit, and we might actually see some overtakes.

webbsy · PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:31 am

Philthy82 wrote:

I just don't get why anyone wants the leader to control the restart. It results in dickish slowdown/speed up behaviour that has caused a lot more collisions than the one last weekend, and the only one who gains from it is the leader who generally gets a huge jump. Everyone else has a choice between falling way behind or potentially causing an accident. Let the lights signal go time for everyone and the drivers with the quickest reactions can benefit, and we might actually see some overtakes.

That was part of the problem. There was a great big green flashing light which means all system go. The problem with that is that the leader determines when it is go time. So there was a green go light but the leader's light was red.

I totally agree with the idea that race director says when to go. After all, the leader doesn't determine when to go on the first standing start, so why should they on a safety car?

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 pm

Scotty wrote:

Philthy82 wrote:

I just don't get why anyone wants the leader to control the restart. It results in dickish slowdown/speed up behaviour that has caused a lot more collisions than the one last weekend, and the only one who gains from it is the leader who generally gets a huge jump. Everyone else has a choice between falling way behind or potentially causing an accident. Let the lights signal go time for everyone and the drivers with the quickest reactions can benefit, and we might actually see some overtakes.

Yeah we'd also see ridiculous carnage

Firstly, you'd have to take your eyes off the road/car infront to see the lights. They're hard enough to see when a driver is sitting still on the grid, imagine in motion? Bottas was going "slow" on that restart and he was probably still doing 120-150km/h? Then imagine trying to find the lights when it's wet and there's spray everywhere, or at night when there's hundreds of lights in your eyeline. Yes drivers have a screen on their steering wheel/dash but there's the problem of it being automated, sending signals to the car, differences in those signals being sent. Then, with a light system, you'd get drivers backing off from the car infront and trying to anticipate the lights, nail the gas and hope it turns green before the driver infront reacts.

NASCAR can drop to a flag because they approach the line very slowly and have long gear ratios so accelerate slowly. F1 cars could do that, but that's dangerous too, with drivers getting wheelspin trying to manage 1000hp on cold tyres with short gear ratios.

Current system is fine, Sunday was just a cluster fuck caused by Russell. Only thing I'd change is make it single file, no overlapping allowed.

Of everything you listed there, the only thing that changes with a director-led restart is where the driver is looking when they go. Gear ratios, acceleration speed, anticipating the go, all of that plays exactly the same role in both scenarios. As far as what cues the driver to go, have the light spotted from the pitwall and relayed over the radio by the teams. This is the pit straight, there shouldn't be any concerns about drop outs. Yes NASCAR does that, and sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. Simple problem to solve, and every other issue you listed doesn't change, except that the risks of anticipating the start are far less when everyone's given the same signal than when they're all trying to anticipate what fuckery the leader is going to pull. The replays clearly show far more than just Russell were guilty of that.

thestig88 · PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:37 pm

Cautions breeds cautions as they say in Indycar

codename_47 · PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:32 pm

Scotty wrote:

Philthy82 wrote:

I just don't get why anyone wants the leader to control the restart. It results in dickish slowdown/speed up behaviour that has caused a lot more collisions than the one last weekend, and the only one who gains from it is the leader who generally gets a huge jump. Everyone else has a choice between falling way behind or potentially causing an accident. Let the lights signal go time for everyone and the drivers with the quickest reactions can benefit, and we might actually see some overtakes.

Yeah we'd also see ridiculous carnage

Firstly, you'd have to take your eyes off the road/car infront to see the lights. They're hard enough to see when a driver is sitting still on the grid, imagine in motion? Bottas was going "slow" on that restart and he was probably still doing 120-150km/h? Then imagine trying to find the lights when it's wet and there's spray everywhere, or at night when there's hundreds of lights in your eyeline. Yes drivers have a screen on their steering wheel/dash but there's the problem of it being automated, sending signals to the car, differences in those signals being sent. Then, with a light system, you'd get drivers backing off from the car infront and trying to anticipate the lights, nail the gas and hope it turns green before the driver infront reacts.

NASCAR can drop to a flag because they approach the line very slowly and have long gear ratios so accelerate slowly. F1 cars could do that, but that's dangerous too, with drivers getting wheelspin trying to manage 1000hp on cold tyres with short gear ratios.

Current system is fine, Sunday was just a cluster fuck caused by Russell. Only thing I'd change is make it single file, no overlapping allowed.

Both systems rely on the drivers spotters/team mechanics telling them when the green is flying on the radio though, so that doesn't matter

They def need to at least change the flag signals. It's confusing seeing the SC lights go off, the SC go in, the lights and every flag point between the final corner and T1 waving a green but the leader still backing off and slowing down/weaving

If they want it this way, probably best to keep waving yellows until the start finish line

De Cesaris fan · PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:03 pm

Looks like Albon was struck on the hand by debris flying off Stroll's car. Wouldn't have happened with the aeroscreen...

De Cesaris fan · PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:05 am

I think the track limit was the gravel. All the drivers were well off the track exiting the final corner. Not sure if the rule was the same where Albon overtook Ricciardo.

webbsy · PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:47 am

It's the god damn inconsistencies that piss me off. The white line is the edge...oh no wait on, the gravel....oh wait as long as you have some portion of the car on the curb....but only for turns 2 and 10...the rest is fine....

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:00 pm

This probably was talked during briefing. With gravel all around, and the most demanding track on tyres. They decided to let it be instead of having a huge headache trying to limit the use right there. It was expected that they would arrive at the last corner with the tyres overheating from the previous sequence. Just to add it into the pot.

I bet other tracks would have the same track limit rule if all run-offs were of gravel with such kerbs/extra patch. They wouldn't give any track limits this weekend, until one corner was a little too much.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:54 pm

Just heard on a podcast that the track limits normally are regulated by an electric sensor, that they didn't have time to install at this track, hence why it wasn't being enforced so much. Nothing to do with gravel run-offs then.

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Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio della Toscana Ferrari 1000 2020

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